Behind the scoreboard : Analyzing The Final Four game between Syracuse and Providence 1987

The 1987 NCAA basketball season will forever be remembered for the iconic Final Four clash between Providence and Syracuse. This match, a pivotal moment in NCAA history, saw Syracuse making a surprising shift from their typical zone defense to man-to-man, a tactical switch that played a crucial role in their victory.

As we dissect this legendary game, we delve into the various elements that influenced its outcome. Syracuse's inside game, led by players such as Sherman Douglas, was robust and hard to match. The team's dominance was evident in their control of the game, but we also examine how the type of basketball rims in the dome could have potentially impacted the game's result.

Basketball rims? Yes, you read that right. One of the key talking points of this episode is the NCAA's somewhat puzzling decision to use hard rims for the final four. A fiery debate ensued on how this choice might have influenced the match, giving a unique insight into the often overlooked technical aspects of the game.

As for Providence, their decision to stick with their zone defense proved costly. They failed to adjust to take advantage of Donovan's shooting ability, leading to a scoring deficiency. Additionally, we scrutinize their press strategy and the consequences of their Cinderella run coming to an end.

The episode doesn't shy away from controversy either. We delve into the repercussions of a technical foul and a physical altercation that shockingly went unpunished. These incidents were not only pivotal moments in the game, but also raised questions about the officiating and punitive measures in NCAA basketball.

Overall, this deep dive into the 1987 Final Four game between Providence and Syracuse is a must-listen for any NCAA basketball fan. The episode provides a comprehensive analysis of the game, exploring not only the tactics and strategies used but also the influence of external factors and decisions made off the court.

As we time-travel back to this unforgettable NCAA matchup, we are reminded of the beauty and complexity of basketball. The sport is not just about shooting hoops; it's a strategic game where every decision, no matter how minor it may seem, can drastically alter the course of a match. So put on your headphones, lean back, and let us take you on this fascinating journey into NCAA history.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:09

Welcome to episode five of Iconic Seasons 1987, the year that saw one of the most iconic matchups in NCAA basketball history. On today's episode, we're going to be recapping the final four game between Providence and Syracuse. This was a clash of two upstarts and two all-time coaches the Orangeman versus the Friars, Pitino versus Boeheim. The game propels the Orange to the national championship even as the clock strikes midnight on the Friars' Cinderella run. If you're a fan of basketball, you don't want to miss this episode. Tune in and, if you like it, leave us a rating and or review. This is episode five of iconic seasons 1987. Alright, we're talking Syracuse Providence today. I'm excited about this because I think both these teams really came into this game with a lot of gusto and Providence was absolutely out of their minds shooting the basketball. And they're coming into this giant dome and they kind of set the scene up as not a great shooting place and what happens? 

Speaker 2: 1:19

Yeah, I mean, they definitely did not shoot very well, that is for sure. 

Speaker 4: 1:23

But there are only two of 11 here in the early minutes of this national semifinal Donovan still cold Time without committing the foul Players are kind of exhausted here. 

Speaker 5: 1:34

A little mental fatigue early. 

Speaker 2: 1:36

I think the other part of this was the former assistant coach going against his head coach Going into this Latino was 0-4 against Boeheim, and so during the season they already lost twice to them. 

Speaker 1: 1:49

I thought it was three times, because they lost twice the regular season once in the big east. This is the third time. Third time, yeah, and they were saying like you can't third times. 

Speaker 2: 1:58

Really hard to be a team three times in one year. And they really thought that after the second game wasn't as close as the first one, but their backup point guard was out and he was back and they thought with him that maybe he would take them over the hump and give them a chance to win. 

Speaker 1: 2:15

And he had a bunch of scoring aptitude in the game before he really turned it on. And he's kind of a little different. He's about the same size as Donovan, but that real burst of athleticism so not as much of a shooter but could really get to the basket. He could move and he made some moves into this game. That kind of showed you what they were talking about but never ended up having impact. That. 

Speaker 2: 2:38

As a highlight for Provincense's game. He probably was their highlight. I think so I mean he had 18 points. That's what I mean. But Donovan just didn't Like. He came in on fire and I think they said he was averaging about 26 points in a tournament and he had eight. I just couldn't believe that he didn't get more shots, right. Why wasn't he running around screens? They said it during the game. 

Speaker 1: 3:00

I didn't understand that, but so I think you know this gets into some a theme that we're definitely seeing in here and that is so tough in a one and done tournament that it is hard to deviate from what you've done all year and adjust in the middle of a game. Again, even what you think is like oh, at halftime he's not hitting, so get him coming off some screen. 

Speaker 4: 3:22

There's the screen by Duda Donovan's three on the money His first three of the game. 

Speaker 5: 3:28

There's the solid screen gets kind of an old. 

Speaker 1: 3:30

I'm sure in the locker room what you're really thinking is, or what you're talking about is like ah, you missed him in the first half, You're going to hit him in the second half. His game is like in transition, off turnovers, you know live ball situation. So that switching that up, putting someone else on the ball and having him run off screens like would he have been better? Like that I don't, you know what I mean. Like I would be more apt, as the coach, to think that he just had a bad first half and he'll get it going in the second half, rather than changing up our whole game plan and hoping that works, Cause you know telling guys hey, you're going to set screen, good screens for Billy and having a guy that he's confident is going to deliver the pass, you know, and that he's going to, I'm sure he could do that, but it's just like boy, that's tough in the final four to make an adjustment like that, yeah, it's a different role and I think that, talking about some of the coaching things that made a difference, I thought in the game they started playing man Syracuse did. 

Speaker 2: 4:23

And I think that really threw him off because they planned for zone Right, so they probably had planned plays for Donovan to get open against the zone Right. They probably thought, well, he's going to get open shots and then all of a sudden they switched to man and their game plan going into it probably completely changed cause they didn't know what to do because Syracuse is a zone team, so like that's what they planned for. 

Speaker 5: 4:44

One of the things that has made Syracuse so much more effective this year in the past is they can go play somebody man to man. They used to rely on their primary defense strictly as a zone, and then they stopped playing man to man. 

Speaker 3: 5:09

But this. 

Speaker 5: 5:09

Syracuse club we're seeing really does play good, solid, man to man defense doesn't it? 

Speaker 8: 5:14

Well, howard Trish triggers it and Sherman Douglas they trigger, and then we have the two shot blockers in the back. But we played with man to man all year. This year and last year we led the league and field goal percentage defense. But I think it's overlooked a little bit in looking at this as an offensive team or a zone team. We played Providence, both times man to man, and yet they were writing about how they're going to play against our zone in the paper. So we had no intentions of playing them a minute of zone. 

Speaker 1: 5:38

Weird seeing Syracuse play man to man. 

Speaker 2: 5:40

It was weird. 

Speaker 1: 5:41

And Providence sticking with the zone too. They, I felt like if anything hurt them at their zone, they're going to. I get why you, when you press like Providence does that you want to drop back into the zone because you're kind of all over the place from the press. But man on the boards, it really seemed to hurt them. They felt to me like they got killed on the boards and oddly which may have been a bastion of things to come for Syracuse they got a ton of rebounds off free throws. What in the world was happening there? 

Speaker 4: 6:12

16 fouls on Providence at the 8 59 mark and only two on Syracuse. Now, syracuse normally not a good free throw shooting team. Coleman, though, has fielded a couple of misses, gets the role and he'll have a chance to complete the three point play Brett. 

Speaker 5: 6:31

This young fella, I think, considered by most along with JR Reed, is the two top freshman in the country this year. There may be some that argue, but without question he's got all American caliber play in him and that's the second time that he's been able to get an offensive rebound off that inside game. 

Speaker 2: 6:47

It is mind boggling, that's for sure. Yeah, you would think when you're in the final four that the boxing out would especially back then boxing out was such a big thing. Now you can kind of see it, because players really rely on their athletic ability to get rebounds, compared to using boxing out like we used to. So, yeah, that was mind blowing, but maybe that goes back to the rims, yeah let's talk about the rims. There's an episode and there's a thing in the middle of the game where the the announcer is like yeah, the reason why these Syracuse is getting so many rebounds is because these rims are so hard so they bounce off and Syracuse just faster to the ball. So do you buy in that the rims Can? It can make one team a better rebounding zero percent chance also. 

Speaker 1: 7:34

Also, the shooting did not seem to affect Unlv and IU later because they could not miss a shot, although maybe you know, freddie didn't even hit the rim, so maybe it was just all swishes and he didn't have to worry about the rim. I'm not sure, alfred and and them, they're all just swishes. So they're like oh yeah, we don't worry about the hard rims because we don't even touch them. 

Speaker 2: 7:50

And then the other question that I would have about the rims is why would the NCAA have hard? That doesn't even make sense. You spend all this money on seats, shirts, all the stuff. Why would you not order? 

Speaker 1: 8:04

able to have good rims. You order up a hard rim you know we need for the final four. Let's get some extra hard rims. Let's make sure we get that titanium we got reinforce these babies. 

Speaker 2: 8:13

Yeah, why wouldn't you just see better score? 

Speaker 1: 8:15

That doesn't even go to New York City and find a double rim and Fly that in for the final four, while we want the softest rims available. I'm not sure. Certainly seems like an interesting choice. And I don't know who. You know, it's the announcer saying it's a word. It's funny. Where did they get that information from? 

Speaker 2: 8:34

Yeah, I know. So, like if they knew going into the tournament that they were gonna have hard rims, then why would they not fix it so that it all? Yeah, that's just it's funny. It's funny that they use that as the rebound. Syracuse is dominating the boards because of the rims. 

Speaker 7: 8:52

Gentlemen, thank you for joining me. What did you think of the first half? Coach strong, I felt Syracuse was way too strong inside. I think they're rebounding. They just dominated to play inside and if you played in a dome before, you know that the outside shooting is usually a little bit difficult and that's what Providence had lived by and I didn't feel that they'd have a good shooting percentage here. You attribute that to the Perception I because everything's so far away behind the basket, just different. I'm sure it used course plays in the dome, so they're used to it like who matches up better now for Syracuse between UNLV and Indiana. 

Speaker 3: 9:28

Which team do you think was favor? A matchup for Syracuse? I want that. From where an Indiana button. I want Indiana to be in there, no matter what the matchup is. I think Indiana, I think Syracuse will give trouble to both teams because they're inside strength, like Denny had said. I thought a key kid in that ball game I don't know what you guys mentioned, but Trish Trish had three big offensive rebounds in the game and it seemed that especially that three point play when it was gonna look like Providence was gonna come through, that was, I think, the big play of the game. 

Speaker 1: 9:57

So what jumped out to you? To start to start the game out. 

Speaker 2: 10:01

Well, I mean, I don't know if it jumped out, they were extremely slow both teams they both seem like they were. They were both extremely nervous, yeah, and you could tell they were missing shots they shouldn't miss, and I for a while that I was like when's the scoring coming? Yeah, you know, it was like it was like about six minutes in and it wasn't a very high scoring game. It was like eight to six or something crazy. And then they all started. They started hitting some shots and, well, jumped out to me as Syracuse had some size down there. Yeah, they were big boys big. 

Speaker 1: 10:29

Yeah, yeah, coleman and Cycley. And I mean Coleman as a as an unbelievable, as a freshman, like that guy it looks. You can see why he would later become a high draft pick and, despite maybe not loving basketball enough to become great, he had all the physical tools to be an absolute. 

Speaker 2: 10:47

He was definitely the prototypical Extreme athlete that can take advantage of being just a Zion type. It's just winged athletic. Yeah, seven foot wingspan. 

Speaker 1: 10:58

His movements are very fluid. That's the difference between him and Cycley, as Coleman's movement is just a fluid athlete, he's moving all over the court with no hesitation. Cycley was actually, of all the Syracuse guys, he was probably the one that was the most often this game. To start he seemed uncomfortable and just awkward and he got one dunk in the first half. That was, you know, kind of really threw it down, but besides that he just didn't look too great against the Providence, which I thought was pretty odd and they. 

Speaker 2: 11:28

And the thing about that was I was looking for him to see what he would do the first half Because they had said that he had averaged, like I want to say, 26 points in the tournament. 

Speaker 6: 11:36

So like coming in, like he was their beast right. 

Speaker 2: 11:38

I was like this guy's just gonna dominate, and the first half Not so much. He didn't he really didn't do that much. 

Speaker 1: 11:43

It's a good thing it kept. It kept Providence into it Because, like, looking at the score and thinking about the game, I kind of remembered this as like an afterthought. But it's a good game, it's back and forth, it's pretty close, providence's press is Causing turnovers. It's doing what it needs to do. You know, they just couldn't, could not get their shots fallen, but they never really were out of, felt out of it. And then the second half they got into that weird zone where it's like it seemed like they could never get over the. We'll talk about the fight. They go in a little run after the fight, but besides that it didn't seem like they had enough juice to get over the hump. 

Speaker 2: 12:17

Providence had a lot of good looks and they were a good shooting team. 

Speaker 1: 12:22

They just couldn't make coming in like they couldn't hit anything. 50% from three coming into the game. It was just nuts like. 

Speaker 2: 12:27

That's why, during the game, they probably didn't change their game plan, because they've been doing it all season and they're getting the shots they want. They're just missing it right. So if they they just hit half their threes the first half, then maybe it's a totally different game. Syracuse really wasn't pressed to worry about losing. They really had control Most of the game. It was closer in the first half, but I still felt like they had the control right. You still thought they were gonna win, you know. So you know. It would have been nice to see if what would have happened. But that's what happens with three-point shooting teams. 

Speaker 6: 12:59

Sometimes you're on. 

Speaker 2: 13:00

Sometimes you're off and they didn't have a big guy down there like Syracuse to keep him in the game. 

Speaker 4: 13:24

How do you dominate this team? 

Speaker 1: 14:19

as Exciting, we get a defense right it's called for an offensive foul on the first one, doesn't he, coleman he? Said I think it was the- first one, but he did get called for a he calls he runs baseline. They throw this lobbed him. He goes up and gets it. He gets called the foul somehow a guy's like underneath him. 

Speaker 2: 14:36

I'm like how is that there was three calls during this game that the announcers were like that was a good call and then like wait a minute, it's going. 

Speaker 1: 14:45

The other way they were. They were totally like what man? 

Speaker 2: 14:48

like let's it roll out, doesn't grab it. For some reason he didn't realize that it was tipped. And then, like, he goes for it. And then now there's like, well, coleman got lucky there. And then, well, that was a foul on Coleman, they're shooting three throws. You're like what just happened? 

Speaker 1: 15:02

again. We'll have to, we'll talk more about it, but I have to say no, they had an all-out bench clearing brawl. No, not one technical. No, zero, zero people thrown out, zero Technicals. Wow, the the officiating didn't define this game outside of that incident, but it certainly it wasn't great either, does it? 

Speaker 2: 15:22

change the game? We'll just go ahead and go to the fight. Okay, so does it change the game that they didn't? 

Speaker 1: 15:29

let's, let's set up the fight too, because this is if you got to go watch this because this is an incredible piece of like NC, double a Lord the fact that no one gets thrown out. So these two guys. It starts out pretty innocently, right, it's basically the hook and hold that they now call flagrant for Automatically. But one guy's got the other guy hooked and gets a little pissy push. It pushes him off, and then Coleman comes in from behind With an absolute haymaker. He comes in to try to murder someone with a single punch from behind the guy and Grazes him basically, and so then he turns around and obviously Pissed, looking for someone to punch, and then a Providence guy comes in Jacking someone, jack and Coleman to the ground, to the ground, and then they wrestle each other to the ground, I mean, and meanwhile punches are being thrown, pushing. Total chaos here, ronnie Cycley, the Seven-footers in the middle and the announcers you mentioned, so you can repeat it. 

Speaker 2: 16:31

What's he think he goes? Oh, ronnie didn't get involved at all. He really was mature or something like that. And then, right when he said it, ronnie sticks his knee right into somebody's laying on the ground. Providence player, by the way like the not sure goes away from it. Yeah, doesn't say that award about it. I think he realized that he was wrong. Ronnie did nothing, they didn't show it again me. 

Speaker 1: 16:51

Drop a guy's midsection, the seven foot three hundred pound guy, why so? They clear it all up and you're like oh man, I mean Coleman's gone for sure, 100%. You know no doubt about it. Anybody who threw punches gone should be gone, probably the first two guys that initiated it. At least get technicals. Yeah for for kind of start, for start in the fracas. So they go away. Everybody get over to their sidelines, nothing. 

Speaker 5: 17:18

This is just trying to go for that. Lob against it that time. 

Speaker 4: 17:23

Delray Brooks and Douglas going at it. I mean, we're seeing some fists thrown there Delray and Douglas are not down on the ground. I'll tell you that one exploded. 

Speaker 5: 17:34

Normally, brent, when a fist is thrown like that, somebody goes, but it happens so quickly. I don't think the referees are going to throw somebody out. 

Speaker 3: 17:42

This is the place in the game here between Syracuse and Providence. This was one brief altercation. No technicals were called there. You see a punch flying and landing in there. 

Speaker 7: 17:52

Well, those kind of things can happen because it's a tension packed game and it means so much. But it's a shame that they do. But that's just the nature of athletics. I was surprised there were no technicals called or no one removed from the game, but I guess they felt final four, let's just call it even, and it wasn't something that just happened. 

Speaker 4: 18:10

I guess Let me ask you first of all about how the fight broke out between you and Delray Brooks. 

Speaker 6: 18:16

Well, against us and Providence. There's always going to be a tough game, and it was a biggie's game. We just got tired up and we just pushed and shoved each other. It wasn't really nothing serious, it was just a pushing match that's all. 

Speaker 4: 18:27

Ronnie, you were acting as a peacemaker. Were you able to see how the fight got triggered? 

Speaker 9: 18:31

No, not really. As soon as I turned my head, something happened. I always see people swinging at each other. I have no idea what happened. Jimmy, how did you? 

Speaker 4: 18:38

see it from the bench. 

Speaker 8: 18:39

You see it, I just saw it started and I just wanted to get the one in front of me broken up, so I just try to keep those two separated. Providence is physical and it's a physical game. It's just one of those things that breaks out sometimes in the biggie's. 

Speaker 2: 18:52

We came back. This was like 20 seconds right? No technicals, this wasn't like a three second fight. That's what they meant it sound like. Well, it's really hard for them to figure out what happened. I'm like what are you talking about? They're rolling on the ground. 

Speaker 1: 19:07

We're literally watching the replays. He's like he could call him to the booth and be like oh yeah, derek Coleman tried to murder someone. He should probably not be in this game anymore, and that in and of itself would have changed Would change the game for sure because, he was. He was, at least physically, the most dominating player. 

Speaker 2: 19:25

Well, and Ronnie would have had to get a technical right for sure for dropping he had three fouls after this, so like that would have put him on the bench and Coleman would have been out. 

Speaker 1: 19:35

That totally changes the whole game totally Well, it was Douglas too, that was the initiator. He gets at least a technical there. So just changes the and he gets a technical later. Yeah, so it just changes the dynamic of the game and the fact that they just thought like came together and we're like, I think we're good. 

Speaker 2: 19:56

You see, pantino like what? 

Speaker 1: 19:57

What do you think you're good at? I guess everybody got a punch in, so we're going to call it even Steven. So it's like well, I, somebody has to ask the rest some at some point. I didn't find anything, but if anybody's got anything, I'd really love to know what their rationale was to just go. But this is when people get mad about today's game being soft. It's like maybe you know like maybe, like, maybe, like, maybe, and maybe in a good way, because that was wild stuff to watch. 

Speaker 2: 20:28

Well, what's crazy about the fight is that happens and then, like then Providence goes on this run it isn't a big run, but they're coming back and there's a steal. They go down for a layup, the guy passes it and gets fouled, and the guy goes up and scores it and they and they count the bucket, even though the fouls way before he gets the ball. So like that was, like all momentum was a Providence. That play happens and really all it should have been was a foul right. 

Speaker 1: 20:59

It shouldn't even have been a side out, side out and they get, they get the bucket and they get a free throw. 

Speaker 2: 21:05

I think they even get the rebound because they missed it. They did. You get two shots, not one throw two shots and bucket all momentum changes. So what I mean like he knows over there. He's going. What is going? 

Speaker 1: 21:19

on right. That was my coaching moment. There was just like his exasperation cut to him when that like throw in his head and it is like classic. But you know, like he has lost his mind at that point he's like my God, what is what is happening in this game? He is absolutely cannot believe what just happened. I want to rewind real quick. So this goes with kind of the mental thing of this. You mentioned a little while ago about the cold start and the announcers kept harping on like that the guys get tight. How much do you buy into that? Because it's often the narrative in a big game that the announcers will bring up oh, these guys, these guys are tight, it's the their. The moment is really getting to them. They just can't get loose. But I think it's always such an easy thing to reach for and I mean it of course fits then, but I don't. Everyone on the team you know what I mean is it becomes too broad for me because I can't imagine like these guys who have played in the mall you know, especially back then, a bunch of seniors, been in a bunch of big games Everyone on Providence and Syracuse is tight, like maybe it isn't, maybe it's the wording, maybe it isn't tight, maybe it's just they're so jacked up, or even that you know like they've been shots, but everybody on both teams. It always seems like a convenient thing to go to, but I guess, like that's one of those things that kind of annoys me. I'd rather than be a little bit more specific and use something that maybe they've seen. Like I was watching him warm up and he just look Out of, out of rhythm. Or I would hear like after the fact, like sometimes in games this year where you know the announcers watching who's seen all the games and they're like something just didn't look right with him. Tonight I've seen him warm up before and he wasn't going through his normal routine. That's something that's interesting. You know, I've heard it now so many times. And to see it go back you know, going back so far and you still hear that same thing like it's a big game, they're tight. 

Speaker 2: 23:11

Some teams do come out and they say that everybody plays hard. Yeah, like sometimes they play extra hard on defense at the very beginning, like they're so jacked up they were not. Maybe that is the real reason, like they're playing out of their mind defensively because they're so jacked up ready to play, and maybe that affects their team. I don't know there's there's so many different ways it was it was definitely off to start to start the game. 

Speaker 1: 23:33

I mean I think it can. You said rightly, I think part of it's doing to Syracuse, going to the man of man, and then Providence's press is really good and kind of relentless. So that is hard to get used to. I don't care how many times you play against a press, the first minute facing it is always such a pain because it's all about patience, execution. You got to go slow when they're going fast and then the opposite If you break it, you got to go fast and try to really get it. So it is like a rhythm thing. 

Speaker 2: 24:01

And I mean, how many of those passes almost got stolen? I was watching the game. I was like he's not going to pass it there and like the guys jumping over the other guy and grabbing them, like wow, you think that they would have had more open. It was just like crazy the inches that they could have been. Providence was really good at that press. They're good. 

Speaker 1: 24:20

They really were. Yeah, well, you had something about Delray Brooks. What do you want to bring up about him? 

Speaker 2: 24:25

Yeah, I think that I wanted to bring it up because Bob Knight sometimes gets a really bad rap for his anger issues and the way he treats his players, but they they had a quote or they had talked to Bob Knight about Brooks, because he transferred from IU and he went to Providence and Bob Knight said he's a great player. He just didn't fit in well what we're trying to do here and I wish him the best of luck and he knows that I don't have anything against him. He's a great kid. He only said positive things about him and I think that sometimes that gets lost. Bob Knight did a lot of great things for the players. You know that doesn't get talked about. 

Speaker 1: 25:03

Yeah, he didn't seem to hold it against him in any way, which is, which is great, and I think it's a little easier maybe when it works out for both people. 

Speaker 2: 25:11

We have, but that was before the game. It was my chance to play him in the next game, the national championship. 

Speaker 1: 25:16

But I'm saying you're in the final four, so it's a little nice, it's a little easier to be in a good mood. Yeah, exactly, it's a little easier to be giving in those situations. It's like, yeah, we both made it to the final four. You know, good, good for him. You know, if IU had lost in the first round again and Brooks was in the final four and Knight was fishing, I'm not sure if you would have got the same response. Probably not If you really needed him. He shot us at the back. No, that's great, that's great to coach. It takes a big person to do that because he's good for them and he doesn't have a great game here. But definitely you can see the, the look, the looks there that that were great. 

Speaker 2: 25:53

So I do have a question for you Do you think that Bayhan, coaching and subbing more players in, made a bigger difference in this game? Because he was trying to match the energy of Providence and play? 

Speaker 1: 26:04

more players. They had their five man. 

Speaker 2: 26:06

They normally didn't put that many guys in and that just shows he was willing to go outside of his comfort zone and play. More guys try to match the energy of Providence. 

Speaker 1: 26:16

because of that zone, it seems like it seems like it, bayhain was completely engaged in this game. He gets into it with Cycley at one point, like he is really coaching his guys. He's going, he's going for it in this game, like it's very clear, like he's in command and he's at the peak of his powers here. Bayhain is a good coach in this, this game. 

Speaker 2: 26:35

Oh, yeah, that manages the game. 

Speaker 1: 26:36

Well, he's got a good game plan again. Going with that man to man defense Clearly knows that Sherman Douglas makes Billy Donovan uncomfortable and he is just in Donovan's jock the entire game. That guy, you know it's like the Hoosiers thing. I want to know what flavor gum you know he's chewing. He definitely knew for Donovan. 

Speaker 2: 26:55

So you think that he out coached Patino, or do you think that Syracuse just had more, more talent? 

Speaker 4: 27:02

I think about, in football, paul Brown, a great master of the Cleveland Browns, all those coaches that he turned out, they couldn't beat him in football. And now, today, bayhain, apparently going to run his streak to five and, oh, like is Rick Patino, who was his assistant coach for two years. 

Speaker 1: 27:17

I think, yeah, coaches. I mean, I think it's pretty clear that he's a better coach than Patino at this at this juncture. Yeah, I mean, he's beat him four times in a row, five times in a row. He's kind of got your number, he knows your tricks, and I think there is a talent deficit here. Though, to be fair to Patino, I do think that Syracuse is more talented than Providence, but as we hit on, there weren't really adjustments that Providence was willing or chose to make, and so it was kind of it's kind of baked in once the second half hit and they still weren't hitting shots. That's when it felt like, oh, this is maybe not going to happen. You know, this is not going to happen. And they had that run, like you said, of the fight really sort of changed. Even though that nobody got thrown out, it did change the messed up Syracuse for a minute. But that one foul then just kind of righted the ship and that was kind of it. 

Speaker 2: 28:09

Now I know that you really liked Sherman in this game and you haven't talked about him, so what'd you think about him? 

Speaker 5: 28:16

Hey, what's it like talking to Sherman Douglas. When he gets thick headed out there on you, he says he's going to go all the way you told me something over here that he did for the first time in his career. 

Speaker 8: 28:25

He takes it up inside, no matter who's there. 

Speaker 6: 28:28

It's three seven footers. 

Speaker 8: 28:29

But tonight, first time ever, he said, maybe I'll, maybe I'll take it out next time. 

Speaker 6: 28:33

He gave you a maybe I'm not sure he will. 

Speaker 8: 28:35

How about it? 

Speaker 4: 28:36

Sherman, what about the second game? What do you think is going to win, indiana or UNLV? 

Speaker 6: 28:40

Well, both both of us has a great team and a great coach and we really don't care who wins. I think UNLV might have to answer something. They caught speed. We just glad to be here. 

Speaker 1: 28:49

He plays. He plays the perfect game for me If I could transport myself into someone else's body and play the game. This is the game that I want to play. He plays absolutely unbelievable defense. He is an unbelievable passer throughout the game, throwing those again modern lob passes to the, to the threats to the guys cutting or on the fast break. He's scoring himself it just I mean he. He dominates the game in so many ways Like his imprint on this game is undeniable. 

Speaker 2: 29:17

Yeah, I thought he was really good too, I do. You really liked him, that's why yeah, for sure, for sure. All right, so we always do our. Would this game be better with Walton? 

Speaker 4: 29:27

And we're at Stanford today and we've got the game of the millennium tonight. 

Speaker 1: 29:31

It doesn't get any better than this. I do learn to love your job. 

Speaker 3: 29:36

Love pressure, let's go Arrrrr. 

Speaker 1: 29:39

They can succeed here. Barack Obama, I don't think he's going to coach, so you keep saying that. But why? Why are you so negative? Why do you just turn down Party on? It's a wonderful day, it's. 

Speaker 4: 29:48

Oregon. The sun was out. 

Speaker 2: 29:50

I personally believe that it would have been. I would have loved to heard Walton talk about the fight Like that would have been instant classic. 

Speaker 1: 29:57

He would have not have been like oh, they just didn't see it, would he have been out there trying to break it up? 

Speaker 2: 30:02

He may be, you don't want to, guys guys, please oh my gosh, can you believe this? This is WWF out here and I would have loved to hear him with the, the foul that we talked about earlier. Oh my gosh, that would have been unbelievable, and the lobs I think he would have been like. Did you see me about tore the rim down? 

Speaker 1: 30:20

on that one. He definitely, too, would have been complaining about the passes. That was probably the most disappointed I was in in. One of the announcers is was was complaining about the. I mean it was a beautiful play. If you think that it's not legal, just call the rules committee about that. I'm watching the game for the excitement of it, not not for your opinion. They get that into that in the NBA sometimes too. Still were Van Gundy or someone will throw out there. I don't like charges, that you know, and it's just like all right. I heard that a few times now, buddy, and it's just. I'd rather have the announcers talking about what's cool, like you said, like the Walton part of it. 

Speaker 2: 30:58

I think they were just more professional back then. I don't I'm not in a bad way. It was cut like they were going to learn about everybody. 

Speaker 6: 31:05

They were going to talk about it like it was there, just I agree. 

Speaker 2: 31:08

Information and not to give excitement and add to the game. 

Speaker 1: 31:12

But then they shouldn't have taken away from the game. 

Speaker 2: 31:14

Oh, no, exactly. 

Speaker 1: 31:14

By calling out. 

Speaker 2: 31:15

And that was new, though, right, the lobs wasn't really that frequent back then. 

Speaker 1: 31:19

Yeah, well, I mean, I think that the lobs had been around, I think that just the execution of it was obviously something that he wasn't accustomed to because it seemed, putting it, his placement of it was so exact that seemed to throw him off. But I mean, it's a pass is a pass. Either you're shooting it or you're passing it. It's clear that he's not in a shooting motion. So I don't know how that would be illegal in any way. If it was a shot that the guy grabbed or hit the rim, you know hit the rim and it was. You know, I could see it then. I just didn't like how he framed it up. 

Speaker 2: 31:49

How do you think this game transitioned in for the national title? I think that that for me, I would have been extremely pumped because Syracuse is going into this national championship game and, I'll be honest, I would think that Syracuse would have the advantage, with Coleman and Ronnie down there and Douglas, but Indiana does take down UNLV, which it was a giant for them to take down too. So it's kind of like you got a hot team versus Kind of I don't. 

Speaker 1: 32:19

I think the coaching thing flips too. I think there's part, there's a confidence to, to Bayheim and this. You know, beat up Latino all those times and now it's night coming in here. He's got two national champions, he's got all for all for leading the way. He's got seniors underneath too, in Garrett. I think that the the moxie that they come in with is a little bit different, but again it's, it ends up in a coin flip. So they still, they still do, they come in and they they are. This Syracuse team is absolutely legit and we haven't even talked about a bunch of the guys. Monroe was was awesome, and they have a bunch of guys contributing. So this is an absolutely dynamic Syracuse team and had had every right to win an actual championship. If it comes down to one shot, they definitely could have beat IU and if it hadn't been for Alford absolutely bombing away from three we can't talk about that. 

Speaker 2: 33:12

You don't know about it. We're getting there, we're getting there, we're getting there. 

Speaker 4: 33:16

Yeah, we're getting there. Let's snap back for a moment to last year's tournament. Do you remember the two most embarrassing defeats? Sure, number one was up in the carrier dome Jim Bayheim. Syracuse team are roundly criticized for losing to the Naval Academy. Then there was that stunning upset of Indiana by Cleveland State, cleveland State turning out to be a little bit better team than you might have imagined. Who would have guessed or bet at the time that both Indiana and Syracuse will rise from those ashes and make it to the final four? 

Speaker 1: 33:44

Thank you for joining us for this. Look back at the Syracuse versus Providence final four game. Iconic Seasons is a principal podcast production. I'm your host and executive producer, aaron Meyer. Special thanks to all our guests for sharing their journeys and insights. If you enjoy this series, head over to Apple Podcasts, spotify, youtube or wherever you get your podcasts and follow the show. Make sure you leave us a rating and review. It really helps us and helps others discover the show. If you're interested in a bonus episode, send us your questions via email. Our email address is hardwoodhistor