Reliving Providence's Glorious 1987 Season: Epic Victories, Transformative Coaching, and Unforgettable Battles on the Court

Let's relive the glorious days of Providence's 1987 basketball season under the legendary guidance of Coach Rick Pitino. This episode is fueled by nostalgic energy and fascinating revelations from our guest, former player Ryan Ford. Prepare for a journey filled with tales of nail-biting matches against formidable teams, and the remarkable victories that defined Providence's incredible season. 

Venturing beyond the court, we peel back the layers of Petino's transformative coaching style and the relentless dedication of the 'Prisoners of Petino'. We delve into the uplifting stories of Five Star Basketball camp's founder Howard Garfinkel and the impact he had on the players. We also draw attention to the influential figures like Jeff Van Gundy, Herb Sendeck, Gordy Chiaz, and Stu, all who played pivotal roles in molding the team. Billy Donovan's evolution from a slow-paced player to a basketball deity is another highlight of our conversation.

In the climax of our journey, we remember the unforgettable Syracuse Final Four game and how it forever changed the lives of the players. Join us as we celebrate Providence College Friars' triumphant victory against Alabama in the 1987 NCAA Tournament. The courage and strategic prowess of Rick Pitino that led to this victory is a story you wouldn't want to miss. Let the captivating narratives from the world of college basketball make your day a little more memorable.

Chapters

• 1:32 Providence Storytelling
• 9:23 Providence Interview

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:04

We've got a great episode for you today. I'm really excited to talk about Providence 1987 and tell the story of the season and what led to the success of that team. In particular, we also have an interview from Ryan Ford, one of the players on that team, who was a walk on but has this unique perspective knowing Billy Donovan, working out with him in the summer as he improved and became the player that would help lead this team to the final four. We've got stories about Rick Petino and all the other players on that team that made it so special and that run so special for Providence. We start with the story of the season and how Rick Petino transformed Providence and end with our interview with Ryan Ford. Big East Commissioner Dave Gavitt was excited about the new face of his old program. I think the other coaches in the Big East will pay more attention than a passing glance when they pick up their paper and see who the new Providence coach is. The new face was former New York Knicks assistant, rick Petino. After two seasons in the NBA, petino was ready to return to the college ranks, where he had previously had success at Boston University. Petino would help kick off a new era in college basketball. During his second year with the Friars After the 86-87 season, the NCAA adopted the three-point line as an experimental rule. It was a decision panned by many coaches, including Dukes Mike Shyshevsky and Syracuse's Jim Bayham, who said that watching teams shoot from deep was boring. The three-point line had been a part of the NBA since 1979 and Petino was much more comfortable with it than many of his colleagues. Seton Hall coach PJ Carlissimo claimed that none of his players had been able to make a single three-point shot in nearly three weeks of practice. This might deserve its own podcast. Was it like the four-minute mile? It just seems incomprehensible in 2023. In 1985-86 season, petino's first year with the Friars finished below 500 in the Big East. They did qualify for the NIT, though, which marked the program's first postseason appearance since getting bounced by Michigan State in the first round of the 1978 NCAA tournament. Providence entered Petino's second season. Predicted to finish sixth in the Big East. They got off to a hot start with a 104-82 victory over American University and quickly established that they were going to be a force to be reckoned with. The opener was one of four 100-point performances for the Friars in non-conference play, including a 113-point performance against Maine, as they cruised to a 9-1 record. Before playing the Big East, the Friars blitzed opponents all season, scoring 86.6 points per game, with a perimeter attack led by Billy Donovan. The senior guard was all over the stat sheet, averaging 20.6 points, 7.1 assists, three rebounds and 2.4 steals per game. Behind the starting lineup of Donovan and former Indiana Mr Basketball and Indiana transfer Delray Brooks, the Friars put together a historic season. Providence fully embraced the new three-point line, attempting 19.6 attempts per game. From beyond it, only one other Big East school, georgetown, averaged more than 10. Their 8.2 made-threes per game would still rank in the top 50 even today. They scored 2,947 points and hit 283s, both still school records. Donovan, brooks and Lewis each knocked down more than two-threes per game at a better than 40% clip. Against a Big East loaded with talent, including Georgetown, pittsburgh, syracuse and St Johns, who all spent time inside the top 10, that season, providence notched a 10-6 record, their first winning record since the formation of the conference in 1979. Providence trounced St Johns 80-51 in the opening round of the Big East tournament. Thanks to the Big East tournament record, 34 points from Billy Donovan, which set up a semi-final matchup with Georgetown Friars were felled by the Hoyas for the second time in two weeks. Neither meeting was particularly close. Georgetown would go on to win the Big East tournament the next day and claim a number one seed in NCAA tournament. The Friars would receive a sixth seed in the same region as the Hoyas. The Friars drew the 11 seeded UAB Blazers in the first round of the NCAA tournament. Placed in the Southeast region to be played in Birmingham, alabama. The Blazers were playing the opening round in their home venue and, favored by a point True to their name, the Blazers got off to a fast start. It took Providence nearly four minutes to get on the board, at which point UAB had built a 5-0 lead. Then the Friars took over. Behind Donovan's 35 points, the offense lit up the scoreboard and tallied 90 points. Meanwhile the defense forced 20 turnovers and racked up 20 steals, despite playing on the road. In the NCAA tournament opener, the Friars were bound for the second round date with number 14 seeded Austin P Governors. The Governors weren't even supposed to make the tournament. Austin P then stunned the country by beating three seeded Illinois, a 14.5 point favorite in the first round, up 10 with less than six minutes left against Providence. It seemed like the Governor's Cinderella story would continue to the sweet 16. Then the Friars came alive. Donovan's press harassed Austin P, their forwards dominated the glass and Billy Donovan and the Friars staged a 12-2 run to tie the ball game. Donovan knocked down two shots at the free-throw line and then Popluis deflected an Austin P pass. That was corralled by Dave Kiffer before the Governors could get across half court. That set up a wide open three for Donovan to tie the game. With three minutes and 26 seconds remaining, he nailed it. With under a minute to play, the Friars found themselves down by two. It was Donovan's time again, this time with the senior hitting a shot from just inside the arc to tie the score again. The Governors attempted a deep three to go ahead with seven seconds left, but the shot missed. Disaster struck on the ensuing rebound as Delray Brooks filed Bob Thomas, sending him to the line for a one-and-one. With two seconds on the clock, rick Petino called the timeout to ice the shooter. It worked. Thomas missed the front end and the teams were headed to overtime not at an 82. The Friars would take the lead in the extra frame and hold on to win 90 to 87. Providence was headed to the second weekend in Louisville. Their sweet 16 matchup came against the heavily favored Alabama Crimson Tide, the Friars would have their way with SEC champion scoring 103 points on the way to a 21-point victory. Donovan and Delray Brooks combined for 49 points and shot 10 of 12 from behind the arc. Providence hit nearly 70% of its shots in an offensive explosion that set up a date with Big East rival Georgetown in the Elite Eight. Providence had upset Georgetown at home thanks to a late three from Pop Lewis, but they struggled mightily in the following two meetings. The Hoyas entered the Elite Eight after dismissing a talented Kansas team with ease. After making at least 10 threes in every game of the tournament, the Friars surprised Georgetown by attacking them inside. The plan worked immediately. Donovan and Brooks attempted one-three apiece as Providence gashed Georgetown's paint defense to the tune of 54 points in the first half. Nine different Friars recorded multiple assists on the night. Donovan scored 20 points, of which 16 came from the free-throw line, and rotational player Darryl Wright provided the deep scoring with four three-pointers as he notched 20 points as well. The Hoyas committed 27 fouls and sent Providence to the line 38 times, where they made 33 of those shots. Providence cruised to an 88-73 victory that sent the team to the Final Four in New Orleans for the first time since 1973 and just the second time in school history. 

Speaker 3: 7:27

There was a fairy tale story at Freedom Hall. Unheralded Providence wants to dance at the ball. They dribbled past the tide with surprising ease and Billy the Kid was shooting out the threes. Yossick Duda no relation to Zippity. This was a team touched by Seren Dipity. 

Speaker 1: 7:44

Unfortunately, that's where the Cinderella story ends. Matched up against another big East rival, Syracuse Providence was sent packing. The Orange defeated the Friars for the third time that year, after sweeping them in the regular season. Donovan Brooks and Lewis shot three of 16 from deep and the offense fell flat, scoring just 63 points. We set the scene in the interview talking about Rick Bettino, what he meant to the program and the outlook that he brought to the players at the program. 

Speaker 5: 8:20

Relentless Gautlett comes to mind. It was never a night off and it was so physical. The game was officiating differently back then and the big East was a place where the official and it was physical, it was a bloodbath and it was fun. 

Speaker 6: 8:39

Sometimes there's certain things that separate people, so God think that this is alluded to where I coach. The thing I'm proud of is not Providence College's final form. I'm proud of that. Each situation we took over the program and it got significantly better right away. 

Speaker 5: 9:02

Well, his energy was magnetizing to me. There are some people that maybe it's not, but the one thing I remember about Five Star is, first of all, howard Garfinkel, who started the camp when we'd have these lectures and people come in and he'd introduce them and he'd just go on and he'd glorify all these people. Well, here's this guy at the time he's 30, 31 years old, whatever he is, and he's been a head coach and now an assistant with the Knicks and he walks into the building and all the kids are chipping their chair I'm on and his passion, energy and confidence they stood out like I had never seen it before in my life. I just tell you, I just never seen someone walk into a gym with a level of confidence and the way he could capture I'm talking five, 700 kids, all these college coaches that are there recruiting all the counselors you could hear a pin drop and the guy was just so confident, passionate, energized, like challenging the best high school players in the country to play them one-on-one in front of 700 people, and he's 30 years old and he's killing them. I'm just like who has the confidence to do that? You know, I just I had never seen it before and so it was. It was magnetizing and you know, I had no idea how faithful that experience was. 

Speaker 6: 10:32

The people in this room just blow me away. The prowess on the court, the prowess on the sidelines is incredible, but coaches don't get into Hall of Fame. Players put them in the Hall of Fame. There was no 20 hour rule. I thought that was the worst rule that the NCAA could ever put in until last night for the first time, by BU players who were only two or three years older than me at the time because I was only 25 years of age my college coach called the AD, john Simpson, and said hi, my captain. And he did. And I was coaching these guys in an hour before breakfast, an hour in between class time, a three hour practice, and they're being so young, I would always seek them out in the evenings for some two or two or three on three basketball at the end. And they were joking last night that it was 20 hours a day. And a couple of my guys said you know we? You know what your nickname was, coach. And I said no, not at all. And they said pop. And I said that's unbelievable. I was so young for you to have that type of affection for me and they said prisoners of patino and yeah, it was. 

Speaker 5: 11:52

It was pretty amazing when you look back on it. And right now there's a 20 hour rule where players are only allowed to participate 20 hours a week when they're in classes with their team and we we refer to that affectionately as the patino rule, because every single morning the day would start with a pre breakfast one hour workout with the team where we literally would run through every single often we do a little bit of skill stuff, jumpers here, there, whatever. So we're in the gym 630, sometimes six o'clock to work out to 7, 7, 30, depending on whether you had an eight or an 830 class and you basically I think it was usually 6 o'clock. You know that I'm thinking of it. We were there 6 to 7 and they had an hour to get to an 8 o'clock class and get some need in a shower. But we worked for a solid hour every morning on some kind of offensive strategy, you know, depending on where we were in the season, either putting offenses in. We were working on, you know, spacing, all this stuff goes in and it was a full workout. Guys were taped. You know, it's not like you were jogging through anything. Nobody did not exist. You know, and you know that that's. That was a full workout. Then, between classes eight to three or the classes you'd have everyone had, you have your schedule and anytime you had a two hour window in between a class on a given day. You know, either three or four days out of the week you would go in for a solid hour of individual instruction and there'd never be more than two or three people in your group and it was all individual instruction workouts. You know all individual dribble moves, put getting shots up, and a coach would always be there with you. And that's where I was referring to Van Gundy. Van Gundy was, was with us every single day and I even think back to it like here I am just this lowly walk on and I'm getting this attention from Jeff Van Gundy to improve my game every single day for an hour, you know, and it's like, how do you not improve Like we did? The guy was 23, 24 years old. You know we knew how bright he was and how good he was. Now the world knows you look back on it. Like you know, he was so instrumental in development. I don't want to sell anyone else short. I mean, herb Sendeck was phenomenal, gordy Chiaz and Stu all of them were. It's just that a lot of times those guys were out recruiting or they were preparing for an opponent and Jeff was in every one of those workouts and he was amazing. So that was an hour workout before practice. So you got an hour from six to seven, an hour in between classes. Then you go from three to six a three hour practice every single day. We were all running to make it to the this is one of the things we still joke about today is how a dining hall closes at 6.30. And we're constantly calling over there Can you hold it, can you hold it? Guys are, like you know, exhausted. You know they only got a half hour to finish practice, get something to eat, and then study hall starts at 7.30. And study hall goes from. Maybe it started at eight, I should say maybe it was eight o'clock eight to 10, study hall, and then at 10 o'clock, when study hall ended because study hall was in the same facility that the gym was in, study hall ends everyone came downstairs from study hall and shot 100 free throws. So we finished at 10.30, 10.40, and then it started all over again the next day. That was every day. That's a repeat, you know I mean these players today. They would not even want that. I don't know players today that would want that, let alone, you know, tolerate it if they had to. And it was something about the makeup of this team that embraced it, and I think it also fed the confidence that we had as the year. 

Speaker 1: 15:50

We got to talk about Billy Donovan. He was the leader of this team. He transformed the team based on his style and the input from Petino, who allowed him to play a modern game in the new era of college basketball, with a three point line coming into Vogue. Petino led the charge and Billy was right there with the perfect game and the perfect work ethic to capture the moment. 

Speaker 5: 16:20

There's a couple of things that I can look back on with a little more clarity, but I can just tell you that his first couple of years at Providence it's not like he wasn't capable, because obviously he proved that later, but the style of play was huge, you know. I mean they were a bring it up slow, feed the post. There wasn't a three point line, so it's not like you're sitting out there and people are actually saying, hey, this is what we got to do is knock down these threes and there was no press. You weren't pressing, you were playing seven, eight, nine, 10 guys. They were playing like six or seven guys. So it was hard for him to get out. There was a freshman and a sophomore, there was upperclassmen that were ahead of him and obviously better. In that style of play, I think what happened is Petino came in there and, like he has the unbelievable I would say unparalleled skill to do and this is Petino. Now he can infuse this level of inspiration within you that if you can connect with it, with him, it's unbelievable what he can do for your confidence and how he can encourage you and then challenge you in a way that makes you dig deeper than you realize, and I think Billy has a depth, a passion and a love for basketball that he has demonstrated. Let's face it, what he's done with his career is rooted in that passion and his commitment and I think Petino was able to tap into it and Billy was able to respond to it because of his capacity for work and his confidence that he gained in the style of play and the role that Petino gave him. That's what I would say is really the bottom line. 

Speaker 6: 18:08

We run much like bird runs on desire, not so much in being fleet of foot, so to speak, and that's what we try and do with all our people just get them to run, get them in the best possible physical condition you can be in. 

Speaker 7: 18:20

Petino's big star is Billy Donovan, who relies on sheer guts and the three point shot. 

Speaker 6: 18:26

Billy Donovan is someone who's gone from, I think, in someone they called CYO Bill, someone who should be in a division two program to Billy. The Kid Donovan. Someone right now is one of the premier gods in the country. 

Speaker 3: 18:40

Donovan for three. He got it, donovan. He's three for three. 

Speaker 6: 18:43

We've watched him come from a slow god who has quickness, always had quickness but never had speed to now someone who has speed and quickness. And you don't want to have to guard Billy Donovan in the middle of the floor on the break because you could twist your ankles going in different directions. He's that clever. 

Speaker 5: 18:59

But the year that he graduated is drafted in the fifth round by the Utah Jazz and he stayed in Providence in the summer and we were all working out together as a team and he was preparing for his training camp. And it was a Friday afternoon. He's from New York City, marty Collins from New York and I was going back to Billy's house. He was dropping Marty off. We had finished this workout so we went into shower and Marty and I were gonna wait. We were gonna go with Billy, right. So we come back out and Billy has his ritual after every workout he would do full court dribble moves and pull up for a three point shot, half to make it, and then get his rebound and go back to the other end. And he had to make 10 in a row and his workout was not over. Now we had already worked out for a solid two hours, whatever we were doing as a group, going out at full sweat. The rest of us we go in, we shower and he's gonna do his ritual and I've seen this for a long time now. I've seen this ritual and he's usually done in five, 10, 15 minutes. This particular day. I don't know what was going on, but he'd get the six, seven, eight, nine makes and miss and come back out after the shower. He's still going, and he's still going, and he's still going. And most people just because he's done it for so long, he knows how many times he has made 10 in a row would just be like all right, I got these two guys waiting for me. It's Friday. The later we leave, the more traffic there is. I've made 10 in a row so many times. I'll just all right. I made eight. All right, I'm done, I'm gonna go. Would not leave until I made 10. He was there for one hour and 20 minutes at least until he made 10 in a row, and I'm not saying that because, oh, he couldn't make 10 in a row Like the guy does it all the time. Like he would not leave until he made 10 in a row and to me that just says so much about his commitment to the way he works, the way he thinks he was gonna stay. He knew he could do it, he just had to stay long enough to do it. And that's my favorite story, just because it just helped me really appreciate the debts that he's able to work. You know it's uncommon, you know it's just got an uncommon ability to work that hard. 

Speaker 2: 21:30

What you do in your job and what you're asking your players to do is not normal. It's not normal for these guys to have to get up, go to class, individual workouts, practice, study, hold tutors, travel, get back at two o'clock, be back up. There's nothing normal about what you do, and if you're not doing something that's normal and it's abnormal and you want abnormal results, you better start acting abnormally. 

Speaker 5: 22:01

Yeah, there's no doubt, and I'll tell you it's funny. You would ask that specific question because I do recall vividly, kind of I don't know if it's an epiphany, but a thought that I had towards the end of the year Because one of my responsibilities that freshman year was keeping the book at the scores table. So you know, I felt like I had to be concentrated on the game and watching the game because I was keeping the book. And I came to this realization about halfway through the Big East that we had not lost one single game that year that we were expected to win, or that you could say is a 50-50 game. If we went into it and we were like a team that was like, just like, you know, whoever plays better will win, we won. And if we were supposed to beat that team, we won. And then every team, when you went into it and said they're not better than them, you know they're not going to win that game, we didn't win that game. We just did not win, you know, and so, but we played close, we were competitive. I mean I'd have to go back. I'm sure we got blown out of a few games here and there, because the Big East was, you know, unbelievable conference. But it's not like we never really embarrassed ourselves or whatever, like people knew that in Petino's first year that you know, like Providence was going to be a tough out, they were in it, they were going to be there to the end. The defense was going to be, the pressure was going to be at you all game. They were going to try and go at you on offense. So I feel like that's what I realized is that you know Petino was not going to let this team lose any game, that they had the physical ability or the strategic, you know, upper hand to win. And that's what I realized and remember about that game and it set the stage big time for the next year. I mean that momentum is relative. We're talking about a team that, like, think about, prior to Petino they hadn't had a winning year, you know, in a long time, and they were a bottom, you know, dweller in the big East. Now the big East was only eight or 19 teams at that point. It's not didn't turn. You know it became a 1415 team league over time but you know it, they couldn't get out of the cellar, you know. I mean it was, like you know, the biggest tournament. There was an eight nine game. You know, like you had to play into the real tournament and Providence was losing that game on a regular basis, not even like feeling like they were part of the big East. So I think that you know to have a team that, like all of a sudden, they have a winning record overall I'm pretty sure you may know better I think we were 500 in the big East or just slightly below it, maybe six and eight, something like that. So I knew we were close but that was like a big deal, you know, because they're not in the eight nine game. And so now, like anyone that thought that we were going to the final four that year, there's just no way. I mean, I think people were just like hopeful that we could be an NIT and bubble NCAA team. Our sites were just get to the tournament, if we can, you know, and I think that's that was the expectation. So you know, I think I'd be lying and I think anyone else associated with the team would be lying if they said, hey, we think we can go to the final four. 

Speaker 1: 25:24

Ryan then sets up for us what it was like when Patino first got there and the way that he inspired the team to become more than the sum of its parts. 

Speaker 5: 25:34

That's, that's what allowed for the final four to happen. What you just said, it's a combination of patino's expertise and his unlimited viewpoint of how he can drive you and make you think you can do anything in the world. That's, that's a gift that he gives all of his teams. But he also had the experience of the NBA, of playing with the NC or with the, with the three point line, and it's it's not just that, like you can look at that and look at basketball today, everyone, how they use that line, it's it's just grown in terms of what happened even in the NBA. But he knew two things. Number one, when you can get three points, percentage wise, on the number you know, and versus the two points that, especially for a team that wasn't overly skilled with going inside that he had already installed the pressure defense where you were getting more possessions and you are picking up the temple of the game. All that he had put in play. And now what he was able to do offensively is aggressively attack with a three point shot, knowing that if we can just shoot a certain percentage, we're going to score more points than we had ever scored before with more possessions. But then I think the other thing that he really helped and he's a genius around is the spacing that the line allows to teach within your offense. He really helped to spread the floor, spread out defenses, create driving lanes, forcing help, and that does a lot of things, because if you force help from a big man, you're giving maybe a lesser skilled big man on your team versus the other. You know the Patrick Ewing's world that had been in the league and other great players like Ronnie Seikli and Derek Gold and other great players in the league that are really talented inside. We didn't have one of those guys, but if you force them to help because of the spacing now your big guys are going to get dumped down passes for layups or if you're helping from the perimeter, you're getting three points on that shot instead of two. And he really helped our team understand that, embrace it, and no one else in college basketball that I can recall and I think there's a lot of people that would say this, that have been around the game a long time. But you know, embrace the three point shot more than any coach, everyone else. There was a. There was a people that said, hey, you know, I'm upset that there's even a three point line, we're not using it. And then there's other people that they just didn't know how and we're afraid to fully embrace it because they never knew how to coach with it. Well, here you got this guy that's saying this is unbelievable, we're going to press, we're going to jack it off, we're going to take more threes than anyone in the country, we're going to shoot a higher percentage, we're going to create, like he helped us fall in love with that. And and then when you start winning, and you know it's energetic and that's basically set the tone for what allowed the final four run to happen Absolutely love it, you know. Absolutely love it because when that's what we were good at number one, you know, I mean, really the strength of our team was the perimeter shooting and and I would go as far as saying that our front court depth. At that point we had two freshmen that had never really played before, so they're relatively skilled, they're long. Marty Conlin wind up being a longtime NBA player and he was a very cerebral, smart player that could finish, and he's coming off the bench now. And then we had two, two centers that were one was a junior, one was a senior, one was pretty skilled and a good soft touch shooter. The other was from Poland and seven feet tall and rugged and could just finish closer to the basket. And then Abdul Shamsadine was a freshman who was long and wrong, just could run and press and could follow other bigs and because he's a third center, we had 15 follows on at our center spot every game and so it just it allowed for for everybody to kind of participate. Is playing 1112 guys in a pressing game, so the guards are jacking it up. I mean Dave Kipper our starting power forward was probably the heart and soul attitudinally on the team, if that's a word. Attitude like his attitude was really the you know the you know Billy was the leader and certainly the maestro and he and Dave were best of friends and Dave didn't say a word. But I tell you, like the stories we tell about Dave Kipper setting a tone on our team of toughness, durability and relentless effort. I mean like those are all the things that came to life with with Petino's vision for the team and he tapped into what everybody was good at and made sure that everybody was able to participate because of the style play. 

Speaker 1: 30:19

I had to intermix the Kobe story with Dave Kipper just to bring it into today and to show how much it matters when you have a guy on your team who's willing to set the tone. Attitudinally is the word that he uses to set that and to inspire that belief in the rest of his teammates. 

Speaker 7: 30:38

First play of the game, I run into a pocket saw we was like what you tripping? 

Speaker 2: 30:44

That's your teammate. You tripping, you ain't mother do that. He said first play of the game. I know what they're going to run and he knew pals. 

Speaker 7: 30:50

On me the last screen. 

Speaker 2: 30:52

I swear to first play of the game. 

Speaker 7: 31:01

I'm right there in front of the men's like wow, Yo. 

Speaker 2: 31:09

He did that to his teammate. Oh my God, it was like oh, I know what, we're losing this game. 

Speaker 5: 31:15

I want to tell you the early in the year. Okay, we're at a tournament, thanksgiving, and we're playing Tulsa. They have like Steve Harris who want to play in the league Nolan Richardson was their head coach and he says to Billy before the game starts, we come in after a warm, or like you have warm ups. You go in like the six minute mark for a break before you go back out and he says to Billy, I don't think we're ready to play. And Billy's like what are you talking about? He goes, look around this room. I don't think we're ready to play because I'm going to start a fight. And he's like what are you talking about? He goes watch. So the game starts and he kind of forces this tie up under the basket and on the in front of the opposing bench and kind of like fakes, like this extra aggression with their big guy, and like he wasn't really fighting but he was like forcing the guy to retaliate a little bit. So the officials will kind of run in on him. And as soon as that happened, he runs from the commotion and starts just throwing his hands up in the air and bumping into the other guys on our team, getting our fans to get excited and just starts to change the whole tenor of the game. And that's what I mean, like guys like that on our team were responding to the energy that Petino infused with our style of play and the expectation that he had for the team. And that's the momentum that started the previous year and that's happened in the first week of 86-87 season and I think those are the little things that really set the table for the success the team had. 

Speaker 1: 32:58

Ryan talks about Petino's coaching staff and gets into a story about Jeff Van Gundy which I think everyone will appreciate. 

Speaker 5: 33:05

It's legendary, really. So when Petino took the job, he hired a head coach from Manhattan College to be his associate head coach, which is more common today, but back then that didn't happen anywhere. That was Gordy Chiesa. And Gordy Chiesa, while he's probably the least known of the people I'm going to mention, I can just tell you he's the one that took over as the head coach from Petino, left to go to the Knicks as the head coach after 87. And then he wound up being an assistant for the Utah Jazz for 20-plus years with both Frank Layden and Jerry Sloan, and he's highly respected in the business. So he was the associate head coach. And then Stu Jackson, who obviously went on to be the head coach of the Knicks, wisconsin, vancouver Grizzlies, the vice president in the NBA for years and currently the senior executive that runs basketball for the Big East. And Herb Sendek was a 23-year-old graduate out of high school that ascended with Petino at Providence and then with Kentucky and now the head coach of Santa Clara. But he's been in NC State, arizona State, miami, ohio, so he's obviously well respected. And then you got Jeff Van Gundy, who was a graduate assistant on that staff, and he was basically Stu Jackson and Herb Sendek found him as a high school coach one or two years out of school and they were recruiting one of the players and they just went to dinner with them and were amazed at this guy's intellect and he wound up being just a young guy on the staff. That was very close to all of us, especially me, because we had to match up in practice all the time. So it was a great experience to know him at that age and just see where he's turned into from a legendary announcer and coach. He maybe consistent might be the better word, you know, because his work ethic is unbelievable. Like he used to sleep in the office and he'd always have like black rings under his eye from being tired and bloodshot eyes and you know, but he would be around it forever the game in the gym and he ran all the individual workouts and he got really close with every player. But in practice like Whether you are up by 20, down by 20, that's what I mean by balance he never changed his perspective with what he expected from you, with what was going on in a game or what was going on in their practice. He just constantly demanded your best effort but, more importantly, he constantly demanded your attention. You could never win your attention because Jeff's attention never wins, it's just always there and it's always about moving the team forward or doing your best. He modeled it so consistently and I guess that's what I mean by balance. You knew what you were getting from Jeff Angundi every single day. He was going to be there before you got there and he was going to be there after you got there. Yeah, it's interesting. One of the things that I think Petino has always been every team he's ever coached very good with is he would tell you to a degree, but I think he demonstrated it and you learned it more by what he demonstrated. He always told us what he thought was the truth about what we were doing. One example would be I remember playing Hofstra and we beat Hofstra by close to 20 points or more and you would have thought we lost by 20 points. When he was in the locker room, and the way that he chastised us and the way he built up the expectation for what we could expect in practice in the next few days in preparation for our next game, because he was not happy, I think those are the things that help you understand that he's not coaching you based on who the opponent you're playing. He's coaching you to your ability and what our abilities are. If we're not performing and doing the things that he expects, then he's going to let us know about it. That really blocks out the noise that you hear from anywhere else, because if you read the newspaper clippings, providence wins by 20, leading score this. So if you're one of those players that played really well or you just want to feel good because you won by 20 and go out because everyone's saying how wonderful you are, you knew when you walked into practice you were getting your butt handed to you because you didn't perform to the way he wanted you to, and it balances out so much of your perspective. You can't get a big head around this guy because he's going to find a way to help. You know where you could have been better, but he does it in a way where you don't feel bad about it. You feel like he's actually trying to help you and that there's more out there that we can accomplish. If you will just listen to me, I think that's the magic of while we might have been six and three and we probably should have been Goo Goo and Gaga over the beating St John's in Georgetown and he was excited, but he would temper it by saying this is what we've done all this work for. I know you guys are this good and now you know you're this good. Let's stay committed to what God is here, and then he'd find a way to humble the hell out of you. One of the ways that I like to look back on because it's one of the only few ways that I ever was able to feel good about my game on this team is, in practice, he would glorify anything that I did well, because he could do that at the expense of a player. That's much better than me to say and then keep that person humble. 

Speaker 1: 39:00

Ryan honors the Patino family's loss by recalling what the death of Rick's son, daniel, during the Big East tournament, meant to the team and how, in that moment of darkness, that loss brought the team closer together and closer to their coach. 

Speaker 7: 39:16

But behind the personal victories was a man hiding a private tragedy. His newborn son was sick from birth and two weeks ago Daniel Patino died at the age of six months. 

Speaker 6: 39:28

If you lose a parent or you lose anyone in your life it's a loved one it's a devastating thing. 

Speaker 5: 39:33

It's very interesting and, I think, pointed question by you to be aware of it. Number one, because it's not a story that I think many people do talk about and I would say like, while I don't mind sharing some of my insight into it, it's really not my story to tell. It's a very personal story to their family and, out of respect to them and really my affection for their family, both Rick and Joanne, his wife and their son, richard, has become a very dear friend of mine, so it is in fact their family story. But I can tell you that the Patino, just because it's factual and they had a son that was born at the beginning of the season, named Daniel, and he had an illness I believe it was some kind of heart ailment, but I can't speak definitive about that and he was in the Boston Children's Hospital or in a hospital in Boston really, since he was born and Joanne Patino went with him every single day to the hospital. I think she was either sleeping there or just there. She just wouldn't leave the son. It was really just an amazingly dedicated mother because she had three boys already at that point. The son, from what I remember, had been progressing and making some strides and the first game that she came to was that St John's game, or because we won that St John's game. I may be losing some details here, but all I know is she did meet up with the team in New York for the Big East Tournament and when we were returning home we were on a bus. There's no cell phones and, quite honestly, we did beat St John's but we got trashed by Georgetown in the semifinal. We were beat by 20 years plus. And we're going back and Coach Patino did a nice job. He blistered us for the way we performed, but he also knew that it's now Sunday morning and we're driving back. The NCAA Tournament selection show is that night and we were going to go back to campus and we were going to get dressed and changed up and then we were all going to go to his house to watch the selection show, which obviously we knew at that point we were getting in. So he was very upbeat about that and we were all excited about that moment. The way the story rolls out is that Rick and Joe Ampetino on the front of the bus and we're driving back and we're driving up 95 through Connecticut and we get pulled over by the state police and they basically escorted them off the bus and they were informed at that point that they had lost their son and it was a very, very traumatic experience to watch them get into this. No one had any idea what was happening. It's not like today. You'd have your phone up and you'd look for the news and whatever it is, whatever was out there, but there's no cell phones, there's no nothing. They literally drove them to a pay phone and where they made a call and we saw some emotion there, of course, and we knew someone was up and everything changed at that point. And really the next time we saw him, when the team all went to the funeral that week very, very emotional to see him and be able to embrace he and his family at that time because we really had not seen him all week. And then the first time that he was with the team to coach us was when we went to Alabama Birmingham for the first round game and that's the first time we were with him and it was really an emotional time for everybody and just an amazing piece of the story that probably isn't something that people would recognize today. Yeah, I think that, if you remove the fact that this happened. I know, from the Providence perspective, there's not a player that played for him at that time that wouldn't have done anything in the world for him because he has this ability to make you a believer in yourself and a believer in each other. And then we experienced what we experienced. So we were believers because we were winning and everyone felt like, you know, everyone was happy, you know, and while we talked about how hard we had to work, I think people embrace that. Our team embraced that, you know, and I don't know if we were, you know, delusional or what but I mean it was fun. I mean you learned a lot about yourself, each other, and you had to love the game, otherwise, you know, you don't want to be there. And I think we had a team that loved the game, loved what he brought to us and therefore were behind him. And when that happened, you take the foundation of what I just said and you can't help but want to. You know, just give your heart to the man and to the family, because you could see the pain they're in and you understand and you could. You know, not knowing what it's like to lose a family member, I could only envision it and it was painful enough, so I couldn't imagine what they were going through. And here he is, you know, I'd say you know, probably having the greatest success. He's 33 years old, I believe, or 35. He's 35 years old at this time, so he's having the greatest success he's ever experienced in his life and he loses a child. And so how do you, at the time when you're going against the WI tournament, you know? So the timing of all was really amazing. And so when he did, you know, come and meet us in Alabama to be with the team. I think everybody was not only there because we wanted to win. He never made it, never brought it up, didn't want to talk about it, wouldn't talk about it with the media. He didn't want that to be the reason. But I could just tell you the undertone of the affection we had for he and his family and the passion we had for each other and what we had done so far, it was it was elevated. It was elevated for sure. 

Speaker 1: 45:57

We finish our interview listening to Ryan recall all the games in the tournament, from Austin P to UAV all the way down to the Syracuse Final Four game. 

Speaker 5: 46:07

I'll just tell you that about five minutes to go in the game, the moment that I'll speak about it changed everybody on our team's life. Because if you lose to Austin P in the second round of the tournament, like I, don't think Billy has the trajectory of his career because Patino would not have the trajectory of his career. You know, and basically I don't know what we were down. I'm guessing we were down double digits, it was probably 10 or 12 points about five minutes ago. But we just couldn't. We couldn't get out of our own way. And I just remember Patino calling this time out it's legendary time out within this team and he ripped into the team in a way that was not demeaning but had an amplitude of energy that I think probably people could feel. You know, not just here and at one point he grabbed his chest with like veins in his neck and in his forehead that said you need to go back out there and pour your heart onto this court or something to that effect. But it's the way he did it and it's what he was saying when he got to that. That you know, I just didn't, he just walked out of the huddle and I just remember the team kind of everyone kind of got together and went back out there and we miraculously came back. However, there was a player on their team that we intentionally followed with minimal time on the clock, like I probably should know this little more clearly that I don't. It's like less than three or seconds or so, and it was. It was the front end of a one on one, one on one and we're and we're down two points and he misses the front end. Now we had called the time out and I remember this strategically, how, how you know, I guess many people would do it today, but that age I just remember it because it was uncommon when I know that the staff told Billy to tell the officials that if he misses the shot and we get the rebound, we want to time out immediately because we didn't want any shot time to go off the clock. It's not like the clocks managed like it is today. There's no TV, there's no buzzers, there's no electronic stuff. There's just a guy sitting over there that has been doing the clock in that building forever. If he's a fraction of a second late, or a second late, you could lose five seconds You're not getting it. Or five tenths of a second You're not getting it back. So very proactive and said listen, if he misses and we rebound, we are, we want to time out immediately like blow the whistle a second, we have possession. And that's exactly what happened. If I missed a free throw, we call the time out, we get, we run the play. They advanced the ball full court, billy makes this, this play, and makes a shot at the buzzer to put the game into overtime. And then we went in and went in overtime. Now down two. The guy makes both free throws where we're down four or we're not winning, and if he had made just one of them, you know we got to make a three, you know and it's you know. So it was. It was really a telling time and I think that is really what changed, like had we lost that game. The story of the Providence College, friars and all of its members would not be what it is today. 

Speaker 7: 49:43

During the regular season, providence and Georgetown met three times, with the Friars winning once. But Patino stood up for his team, winning the respect of John Thompson. You got to realize that anytime you can beat Alabama, the way they beat Alabama and Alabama is an outstanding team that you're talking about, a good team. You're not talking Cinderella here. Cinderella's already gone home. 

Speaker 5: 50:02

Yeah, I appreciate the question because it's it basically is the accumulation or really a microcosm of everything about our team, because Patino knew them well enough and watch able to watch three different games. We beat them once at the buzzer at our place and they beat us two other times when the games weren't very close. So now all the marbles are on the line. We're in Louisville, a lead eight. They got everything going for him and he basically put us all together and he just said a couple things. He called Billy and Delray aside to himself and he said look it, you guys, if you want to win this game, you guys cannot take shots. You guys can't, you guys cannot be taking a lot of shots. You're going to be decoys in this game and everyone's like what Our two leading scorers are, you know, and he says, no, like they are, they have figured out a way to pressure you guys and wear you down. So we're going to, we're going to feed that, we're going to suck into the way that they're defending you and it's going to create these allies. And the second layer of the decoy is that rather like all of our, our big guys, you know, much like the game is today, like you either want, you know, close in twos right, or you want a three point shot, three shots or shots. Yeah, that's seven to nine foot areas, not necessarily a good shot, but the way they were defending us because we were on the three point line and they had such great length inside that you know they could, you know, get to our guys at the rim he basically, like Marty Conlin, was a very good shooter, very skilled shooter as a freshman and he had played enough minutes that he was not a freshman anymore and so he was essential. Steve Wright was essential, you know, because he was a center that could make a 10, 15 foot shot. He put Dave Kipper 15 footers he was making all year, so he basically allowed these guys to just step a little further out than usual and have Billy decoy the pressure and Delray decoy the pressure and found these guys for these medium shots. And then we wound up some other guys that came in. Darryl Wright wound up just playing. So Darryl Wright come off the bench and was not a key player, but he had like 21 points in this game and won a B&B of the because they just they didn't key on him. So Billy and Delray were feeding these other guys and there was enough sprinkled in and Darryl obviously had an incredible game that it allowed for us to get a lead and then sustain the lead with free throw shooting down the stretch. Billy wound up, I think, making eight free throws. You know like he. I'd have to double check, but I know I think he had like four or six points with like three or four minutes to go on the game and he wound up like 15 or 16 points. Yeah, it was basically like so we got the lead with this strategy and then they just kept the ball in Billy's hands and they were following him and he was just icing him at the line and I wound up being just an amazing and amazing story. Well, I'll tell you, I think there's two things you know that I would say about that. Number one is it starts at the beginning all year long, like he makes every player on the team feel like what they're working for. Like when I described how many hours we put in the individual instruction and you know the coaching staff and Fangundi and Sendek and Stu and Chieza that were in all these individual instructions, all those guys that, like the Darryl Wright being MVP, they were like people were working with him every day, developing him, and then he finally had this opportunity, so he has the confidence and he was able to step in others, you know. But then I think, when you look at it, like the genius of him figuring out and having the courage to say this is how we win, and I believe in all of you. I believe, I think we could all do this together. I mean, in fact, I've heard Jeff Fangundi say more than once that is the single greatest coaching strategy he's ever seen and it was the single greatest coaching job he'd ever seen, done from end to end in a season. You know, and I can't say that you know up until at least the last decade. You know, and I think that he would probably believe it today, unless he's seen something else better. 

Speaker 4: 54:23

Someone's got to go home. You lose one and you're gone. And when the underdog wins it's an extra special feeling. And it's got to be an extra special feeling for a team like Providence that has really risen rapidly in the big heat. 

Speaker 3: 54:39

I don't think this is a Cinderella team. I agree with John Thompson. That's what it's all about. Every travel agent on Rhode Island will be on the phone tomorrow morning and in fact the entire basketball community was stunned yesterday, and out in Seattle, Jerry Tarkanian was holding a press conference when he learned of that friar's upset victory. 

Speaker 4: 55:02

Providence by how much Are you kidding me? Providence by 15? It's a final Holy cow. Now, if you talk about a celebrity, I'd be Rick Bettino. He'd be the mayor of Providence. I'll tell you that right now. 

Speaker 3: 55:19

Well, there are a lot of other folks who thought the same thing. As news of the big upset swept through the campus, the students came out and celebrated together In Louis Confetti. They trimmed the trees with whatever was handy and after two earlier tough Big East losses to Georgetown, they vented their frustration on a Hoya sweatshirt. 

Speaker 5: 55:39

Well, I think that was really kudos to the Big East because they were so good. But part of, I think, what really helped us in the tournament is that the teams were not used to seeing us, our style of play, and until you play against it it's really hard to prepare. For Now it helped us against Georgetown because we knew how they were going to play us, but we still had to beat a really good team that was familiar with us. But then when you get to Georgetown, I think there's two things I'd say or I'm sorry we used to Syracuse. There's two things I'd say about that. You get there is they really knew us well, their zone was long and it really put a lot of pressure on us to make shots. And we played in the New Orleans Superdome and I think there were somewhere around 60,000 people at the game and it was one of the original domes that was massive, where typically they didn't put the court in the middle of a dome like they do today, like now they do that, and they bring all the stuff down at a time. But back then usually you'd play like you know when you played Syracuse in the Carrier Dome they put it on one end and they kind of keep it tight and it doesn't feel as big. But I'm just telling you, when we walked out there to play, you feel like you're in a bubbled city when you look how big this thing is and we had experienced that other than the dome but, like I said, it was in a quarter of their. You know a third of what the Carrier Dome is and I just remember the depth perception, the zone, the challenge of all that. 

Speaker 3: 57:25

We'll take on Syracuse victorious over Providence 77-63 in game one here today at the Superdome. As we come back inside, I'm joined now by the coaches who are in last year's finals Denny Kromp of Louisville and Mike Szczewski of Duke. Gentlemen, thank you for joining me. What did you think of the first half? Coach? 

Speaker 8: 57:43

Kromp. Well, I felt Syracuse was way too strong inside. I think they're rebounding. They just dominated the play inside and if you played in a dome before, you know that the outside shooting is usually a little bit difficult, and that's what Providence had lived by. I didn't feel that they'd have a good shooting percentage here. You attribute that to the depth perception. And everything's so far away behind the basket. Just different. Syracuse, of course, plays in the dome, so they're used to it. 

Speaker 5: 58:11

Had we made some shots, I think it could have been a different game. I mean, they were more talented than us. I mean they were player to player, but we would have loved to have played someone else the term that I think most of us have used and someone must have said it a long time ago, but it still holds true the whole year was like lightning in a bottle and if you think about that metaphorically, it happens in a flash. It happens so quick. If you're in the moment and you're feeling it and you're living through this. That just keeps getting better and better every week. One week was better than the next and I think the further you go, the more it magnifies your desire to win. So every week you're at the peak of your excitement and your inspiration to win. And listen, I'm talking as a guy that has no contribution to us winning and losing. I'm just along for the ride. So I'm witnessing this, I'm part of this, I'm in the bottle, but I'm definitely not the lightning about that. So I'm watching all this happen, but I know what it feels like, because I'm experiencing the feelings like everybody else and you just can't. You don't want it to end, you want to be part of it and all that. And then, when it does end, you never saw what it looked like outside the bottle. You were in the bottle, you were experiencing and it happened in a flash when it was over, but while it was going on it was you know it was, it was just very special feeling. So when you look back on it, it's shaped all of our lives. I just know individually how it shaped mine and how grateful I am that I was so fortunate to be around these people, to be a Providence at that time and to really have been able to be invited into the opportunity to be on the team. 

Speaker 7: 1:00:11

Jim. Thank you very much. Coach Rick Cucino, your team 36% from the field of the entire game. The three-point shot wasn't there. What do you think the problem was with the outside shooting? 

Speaker 6: 1:00:20

Well, I think Syracuse played outstanding defense. We tried to go inside. They have good shot blockers. They just outplayed us tonight. It's a tribute to their defense and we had an off-shooting night. It's a combination of both, but normally when you have off-shooting nights you credit the defense. 

Speaker 7: 1:00:33

I talked to some of your players before the game and asked them if, in fact, they thought depth perception might be a problem. Some people also bring up the fact that you had a week off and maybe the team missed the rhythm a little bit. As a coach, what do you think about those two? 

Speaker 6: 1:00:44

possibilities. Well, it is obviously any type of play in a football stadium. It is a tough background to shoot in, but now we were on top of our game. We've played exceptional basketball going. Syracuse had a week off as well, so we have no excuses. They just played outstanding basketball. They're a credit to the Big East and I'm really proud of our kids. They tried. They just couldn't get the press on because the field goal percentage was so low. 

Speaker 7: 1:01:06

Emotionally. It seemed as if the fight did spark you guys. 

Speaker 6: 1:01:08

But not quite enough Now. We just couldn't shoot a high enough percentage to do anything with it. But they kept stopping our rallies and they're a credit. They really played outstanding basketball. 

Speaker 7: 1:01:17

You individually have had a strong season. Will we see you at Providence next year? Where else am I going? 

Speaker 5: 1:01:24

Well, I would say that to me it was the fruition of my own personal basketball journey and my love for the game. Back to what I said earlier about how all right, I'm just a guy that grew up around basketball, loving basketball at St Bonaventure, and it was just a big part of my life. I played all the time. I had these dreams of being able to play in college and then I had it all come crashing down. I thought it was over and then I saw I just try and resurrect this passion into coaching and fortuitously switch gears at the last minute to go to Providence and wound up being part of this team. So to me it was a culmination to ultimately become a walk-on on the team. It was just like it completed a lot of my own aspirations around basketball. But what I take from it today not just the whole story part is that I tell Patino this every time I'm with him. I will be eternally grateful for him, because the fact that he was my coach and he tapped something in me that I could have never found I don't think on my own, certainly not at that age Like he actually helped me see what I was capable of as a player, but more than anything, as a person, because what he challenges is your emotional and your mental capacities every single day, and physical. So your physical, emotional and mental capacities are challenged every single moment. You're around the guy and at that age I was 19 years old, 20 years old, and what it shaped and taught me and developed in me has totally set up my life, changed the way I viewed everything in the world, and that is the greatest gift that he could have ever given me and he'd given anybody, and I'm not alone. He does this. You talk to anyone that's ever played for him. If they've opened up to him to allow that to happen. It has happened. If you fight him on it, you're just not going to stay stuck. But he has a gift and he's done it for many players and you listen to enough of them and you'll hear a very similar story. 

Speaker 6: 1:03:51

Then you use your skill, you try to be the best you can be. Try to use the principles you learned here this week to try and be the best you can be. And I'll leave you with this last thing I try to learn what not to do. I have an idea of what to do. I want to know what not to do. Now. Five stars synonymous with greatness. It's synonymous with success. One player after another, that shirt's not going to make you. 

Speaker 1: 1:04:23

You're going to make yourself. Thank you so much for joining us today and listening to the story of Providence 1987 in an interview with Ryan Ford. If you enjoyed the episode, do me a favor and leave us a review or hit the like button. It really helps us out and lets us know that what we're doing matters to the fans and helps tell the story of Providence and basketball culture at large. We'll see you on the next episode to tell the story of Syracuse 1987 and hear from a player on that legendary team MUSIC.