Iconic Seasons | Hardwood History | College Basketball
Iconic Seasons is a podcast that takes you back to the greatest college basketball seasons of all time. Through the voices of players, coaches, and journalists, we relive the excitement, the drama, and the unforgettable moments that made these moments and seasons iconic.
We use interviews, audio from the games, as well as scripted storytelling, to bring the past to life.
Whether you're a die-hard college basketball fan or just a casual observer, Iconic Seasons is a must-listen for anyone who loves basketball and basketball culture.
Iconic Seasons | Hardwood History | College Basketball
The No Ceilings Blueprint: Unraveling the NBA Draft, Team Decisions, and NIL NBA Draft Who's Getting a Shoe
In this captivating episode, we dive into the NBA draft, analyzing the prospects, and considering the crucial role fit plays when drafting young players. We also debate the value of Scoot Henderson and why his number two ranking is being contested. Furthermore, we explore the future of NBA teams, such as the potential trade of Portland Trailblazers' star player Damian Lillard, and weigh the pros and cons of such a decision.
But that's not all! We also discuss the most marketable big men in the NBA and the possibility of Victor Wembanyama getting his own shoe. In addition, we examine the draft prospects of The Thompson Twins, Anthony Black, and Derek Lively, and why they could shine both on and off the court. Don't miss this thought-provoking discussion!
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Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's amazing when Michigan can keep this game to a 19, 49 inch game inside that three point line.
Speaker 1:It's all there. Oh well, let's, let's start there. I'm going to just leave it off there. Tell us a little bit about your podcast, how it's been going. the website, the merch, Just started out out there because I think it's fun catching up just on that, And then we'll get into a little college basketball. before getting into, you know, the alien and scoot and all the other guys.
Speaker 3:Sure, and the the success of no ceilings. Really over the last few years, but in particular this year, the growth has been tremendous, right? So we we've gone from having a pretty steady schedule of content Monday through Friday. You know, certainly the first year. We started out this year but we merged the podcast feeds together, so now you have all of our podcasts in one spot Monday through Friday, which is really awesome for fans. They don't have to go all over the place to find everyone's contents all in one place. We've certainly upped the merch game. We had a pre-season merch release as well as now another traditional release with our new draft guide. We had a pre-season draft guide that went out, which is hopefully a trend that we're going to keep doing it as the years progress here.
Speaker 3:So just the, the amount of content we've been able to put out, but also the way in which we've kept it organized and kept everything on a schedule, i think was one of the biggest things for me that I wanted to try to bring to the table to no ceilings. You know Corey, corey and Rucker they were the big founders of of no ceilings and they really brought a lot of the squad together. But I'd say every one of us who's been there from the start has had like a key contribution in terms of something that's carried through and has really made this team successful. I would say my contribution and that has been we should have the type of schedule in place to where it's not just that we're publishing Monday through Friday but everyone sort of has their niche on the block, right Like what? what are you known for in terms of the type of writing your brain of the table, the things that you're talking about? like Monday, you're getting me I'm writing the morning dunk during the season. So you know it's kind of like your, your Monday morning quarterback, your recap column, right Like some, some people are doing like sleeper deep dives.
Speaker 3:You know Corey is doing a lot of like the film stuff, the, the film type stuff and the draft act rankings. Metcalfe is doing a Friday. Screener Rucker's always brainstorming some crazy idea that's coming out, you know, every other Wednesday. So it's just we've we've all sort of found our unique styles and we've found homes for those styles. Where you're getting this this day, readers know what they're expecting or listening to when they're pulling up to the podcast feed or the website on a Monday through Friday. So I think that's something really cool that we've been able to do and keep going A lot of different personalities, that's right.
Speaker 2:It's that's makes it always makes it better right? Nobody wants to listen to just the same monotone all the time. I we talk about it. You know like you call me monitor.
Speaker 2:No no, no, no, not you. I just mean, like in general, like this, different personalities. you know, like, like, if you guys have an argument about who you guys think should be the number one pick or not, this time, obviously, but you know, in general, like you know, bringing the different personalities is what I wrote, that's what I've meant. I guess is the way, better way to say it.
Speaker 3:I think that's important though right It's not just within our team You're talking about different personalities but, like this Tuesday on our podcast feeds that in real Tuesdays throughout the year, I should say we opened up what's called home and away, which is really us trying to bring in guests outside of those ceilings to give different perspectives on the draft and basketball, And that's always been something I've tried to do in draft deeper as well. Last year was a very guest heavy slate, mainly because I didn't have the consistent co-hosts throughout the course of an entire year. It's been a blessing this time around, but just trying to make sure that we're having enough different perspectives from within this space and keeping it similar to what you'd find on social media right, You can scroll down draft Twitter. You can see like 20 different big boards with like players and in all sorts of different places and ranked, And we want to make sure that those opinions were we're not just echoing the same points year long.
Speaker 3:We want different perspectives on our platform And I think that's another way how we're engaging the community at large and we're really we're really making our content very approachable. Right, Everyone's opinion is good opinion And we want to make sure that we're not leaving any other stones unturned or uncovered. Shout out to Maxwell with that, that awesome column that he did preseason, but that's really a big reason to our success as well. So yeah, different opinions, different perspectives, always trying to keep it fresh.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely goes deep. And I listened to the one about just the top four teams that you guys did like two hours deep, diving into like all their picks scenarios. I mean, that's some real, some real research.
Speaker 2:Yeah, research stuff It was great.
Speaker 3:That's what fans want though right, They want that was one thing I wanted to make sure that we did not just Maxwell and I covering that, and Stephen when he was podcasting with us over on draft deeper, but what we've also done at those ceilings. we started to churn out some lottery team previews in written form and that's that's not just Maxwell and I doing those, that's our entire team is pairing off and we're taking a look at different teams and really breaking down. where's this team at now? What actually makes sense for them to go after? Are there other options on the table? I just released a Dallas Mavericks one myself today, so that was really cool to be able to walk through. Well, this team's in this really weird spot because you have Luca Doncic, but what's Kyrie Irving going to do? What are some of the other pieces on the team going to look like?
Speaker 1:And does it make sense for them to trade Ron? you know he'll be there next year.
Speaker 3:Oh come on.
Speaker 3:But but like does it make sense to trade the pick for for bringing in a few other role players that could fit next to Luca, but is is the value behind those players going to be the same as getting like a Jairus Walker or Taylor Hendrix if they fall in the draft? Like, there's all these different things to talk about and that's why you know fans have those same questions. So it's important for somebody to be to be covering all of these teams and all these different scenarios at length, like we are on multiple areas of those Get to some of the guys that returned to college and some of the guys that stayed in.
Speaker 1:Were there any surprises for guys that stayed in or returned, or who who? what were your thoughts about that?
Speaker 3:I don't know if there were a ton of big surprises. I think the guys who went back definitely stand to improve their stock and certainly get themselves in better draft position next year, like a Dan Bono. He was talked about as like a late first round guy. I had a second round grade on him this year so he can absolutely be a guy who comes back and goes in the first drawn home. Same story Dylan Mitchell was was not sniffing my top 60. I'm sorry for any Dylan Mitchell fans out there, i just I just didn't see it this year. So that was another smart decision to go back. Judah Mince I thought was a good smart decision to go back.
Speaker 3:I guess the the two that surprised me were I think Cliff Omerui out of Rutgers really helped himself this past year And I think when you just look at his physical profile the lack of true centers in this draft I thought he could have solidified a spot to be drafted in the second round. I don't know where his aspiration will lie in terms of his stock, so maybe he thinks he can push to a to a top 35, top 40 pick. I'm not sure, but I do think he would have been drafted this year. And then Dylan Jones out of Weber state was someone who we actually interviewed in those ceilings.
Speaker 3:Corey and Rucker did a great film session with him, but you saw him play at a league camp, you saw him play at the combine. He really helped himself in terms of proving. Hey, i may not be the quickest guy in the court, i may not be the most in shape guy on the court, i may have some questions about my shot, but you know what, when you put me on the floor, i'm going to impact, winning on both sides of the ball. And I thought, from my eye, just given his IQ, how he processes the game, who is making things happen, even as a lead ball handler times for his squads and those scrimmages, as well as going back to the film and we were staying looking at his statistics I thought he would have been drafted as well, but he's, he's going back to school and he really thinks he can make a push for for a higher grade. So those are probably my two guys that I think could have gone either way.
Speaker 2:My, my question is do you think Zach Edie can play in the NBA? Like it's not, it's not a knock on him. I think he's an unbelievable college basketball player, but you know, you got to have some speed to play in the NBA. Like who can he guard? I mean, like the guy from Dallas. I can't think what his name is right now The tall guy. Or is he played for Dallas or did he go somewhere else?
Speaker 3:You're talking about.
Speaker 2:Bobon Yeah, Like it. Can he better? if Bobon went to college, Bobon would be pretty dang good in college, Right? So is he better than him?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, edie. Edie projects to be better than than a Bobon Riyadh. I I'm not saying he's like an all world you know speedster but I do think he moves better laterally than than people would give him credit for. He actually knocked some of the drills at the combine out of the park for a movement perspective for somebody his size. So I do like what Edie brings to the table. I don't see him as this guy who's going to be playing, like you know, 32, 36 minutes a night. He is more of like a 20 to 24 minute and a guy. But if he can give you anywhere close to the permanent production that he did it for do in the NBA, you kind of would like to have that guy even as like a third big man on your roster Right.
Speaker 3:And again we come back to this draft class not having a lot of true size in it, like this draft goes in terms of big men who I legitimately would would like to draft. There's about six names in this top 60 coming up Like that. That I actually get excited about. Edie would have actually absolutely been in that mix. I could have seen Edie go in top 45. He wanted like an early second, late, first promise. That's essentially what he was looking for. You get the NIL money going back to school. I mean it's it's an easy decision to make. That's why I wasn't surprised. But he he would have been drafted for short.
Speaker 1:There you go, zach Zach Edie fan over there.
Speaker 2:No, i just, i was just curious, like is it because the game has evolved so much that you know like in the past he, he probably would have been an easy first round pick right, say even 10 years ago? Yeah, absolutely. You know so and I think a part of your podcast that I was listening to the other day. It talked about how the value of was it small, forwards or forwards or higher than big guys.
Speaker 3:Yeah, i mean every every two-way wings where they can get them. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Speaking of big guys, you like, then what about Trace Jackson Davis and Jalen Hood Chafino?
Speaker 3:So for those Indiana guys, yeah, i was not not surprised that Jalen Hood Chafino did not go back to Indiana. Unfortunately for you guys, it could have had a monstrous sophomore season, but I do think he's solidified himself as a top 20 guy. There's a lot of buzz. You can go in the lottery. I'm I'm a little torn. So, you guys, when I came on your podcast preseason, i was actually shouting Jalen Hood Chafino with a freshman to watch in the big 10. And in some ways, he lived up to it. I have some questions in terms of how impactful he can be out of the jump if you're expecting to be a point guard at the next level. I think you guys saw a lot of the turnover issues that he had in Indiana And it wasn't. It wasn't just like Hey, i'm being really inventive, i'm going to try this, this really sick pass through this tight window and it's going to lead to a turnover. It's like you know careless stuff, like he dribbled the ball off of his foot Or he's just really not watching where he's doing, where he's driving in the traffic. He's a little too tunnel tunnel vision at times. In terms of when I make this initial move inside, i'm looking to get to the spot around the free throw line and pull up now recognizing where somebody else could be in that pick and roll coverage. So just some of those little things he needs to work on. As a point guard, he needs to shore up the three point shot And he wasn't as impactful of a defender as he was in high school, which is something I was actually surprised about. Maybe it was the back stuff that held the back a little bit, i'm not sure. He certainly looks healthy now, so I would project him forward as someone who has one of the highest ceilings, maybe outside of the lottery, in terms of just on my big board. He may still very well go in the lottery because of that. We'll see what happens on draft night, but yeah, he's, he's going to be just fine. I feel like in the NBA.
Speaker 3:And then trace Jackson Davis I keep talking about. There's not a lot of size in this draft class, guess what. I guess we get benefits from that TJD. Like there's a lot of people already had a first round grade on him. A lot of us and those ceilings had a first round grade on him. I didn't. I still have him at 36 on my board.
Speaker 3:That's not me being a hater on trace Jackson Davis, but any means there's just other positional bets and swings I think I'd rather make. But in terms of a player who should go in the late first, early second round, i mean there's literally no reason to not take him in that range, right, he's polished 69, 245. You guys know all about the post footwork his ability to grab a rebound, bring it up and transition, make place for others. If the dude had a jump shot or let me rephrase that, if the dude showed a willingness to take a jump shot, he would have to take a jump shot I think we'd be having a different conversation. He might be in like top 20, you know, pushing towards the, the back end of the lottery pretty easily, but that part of his game holds him back nevertheless.
Speaker 3:If you do take a look at what he does bring to the table, there's a lot of, i Won't say, as good as opera and Shen gun. Opera and Shen is freaking special, like I love that guy. I was like six on my board that year in the draft. But there's a lot of like Shen gun light type stuff going on in terms of what he can handle operating and making place for others In a half court setting and even grabbing the rebound, bringing the ball before, so he has value in the NBA. It's just a matter of how high do you want to take a player like him when there could still be other guards and wings on the board? That's the question that has to be answered.
Speaker 2:All right. So I have a quick question for you, all these team breakdowns. So if Jay hoods of Fino, if you could pick one team that you think he could be Worked the best for him in the NBA, what team would it be like to get drafted from? I?
Speaker 3:Think Utah is gonna be knocking on his door And it wouldn't. It wouldn't shock me if they even use you know, i think he's been popping up there number nine They use the nine pick on him and not even just like the 16th pick. That wouldn't shock me at all. I I'm of the opinion to where Utah should look to go for the best forward or wing Available at that number nine spot and then circle back around a 16. Which guards on the table? Is it jail and hoods of Fino? as a Kobe Buffkin Like which one of these guys isn't gonna go as high as we think they will because of some late risers that are that are Popping up in the lottery, then go that direction with a point guard.
Speaker 3:But if you believe that jail and hoods of Fino is the guy and the jazz may very well Have that belief because they they have a need for somebody of his ill in the backcourt, right if he is the type of point of attack defender that he was in high school and he can bring that into the NBA. They don't have somebody like him on the roster that can do that right now. They don't have someone who can create shots in the backcourt at 6-6. They're relying on, on guys like Colin Sexton and if we don't know whether Jordan Clarkson is gonna be with the team or not, they already pushed my con me out the door this past year, so they need an injection in that backcourt and he could certainly be the point guard of the future for them in a number of Respects. Yeah, i'd say Utah should be, should be looking his direction.
Speaker 2:I'd be a good, good organization, i'd be a good place for him to go like. So I feel like and he can't say bad things about teams But I feel like sometimes that players go these places and just doesn't work out Like there's certain teams that they go to and I don't know if the culture, the chemistry, the way they run things, it's like they just never turn out to be as good as you would hope they would be.
Speaker 1:I'm not gonna name all the time It's a pretty good place, i mean outside of. I like Utah, i think right now I think just about anywhere would be pretty good to go like Sacramento now. like the beam, you got a lot of risers. I feel like but would you?
Speaker 2:would you say that Orlando's really developed their talent?
Speaker 1:I Mean a lot of talent in that door. I wouldn't want him going there because they've got so many guards. I will get enough subject.
Speaker 3:We can we can, we can ride the subject for a little bit. I'm cool with it, Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think any.
Speaker 2:You know, Orlando would be weird just because they have so many guys like Houston right now, like Houston's culture, probably isn't the best because they don't really care about winning and they're gonna let you make whatever, play you want and shoot However you want, like oh you On those guys.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he's gonna be on him. He's gonna be a great teacher in the locker room for them. I think when you look at where young players go in the draft, there's two things for me to come to mind. In terms of they go somewhere. Ultimately it doesn't work out the best for them. Hey, does that team have a plan for them? Do they have a specific developmental plan in place for them? and B, do they have the resources to actually carry out that plan? So We're talking about some of these young teams.
Speaker 3:Like you mentioned, orlando, for example, they've had some guys go in and out the door because they've been doing nothing but bringing in young talent in and out the door. So if you're taking on a number of guys who need certain developments within different aspects of their skills to actually be Serviceable on an NBA floor you know, playable in some instances Then if you're taking on too many of those guys, you only have so many trainers, you only have so many people in the staff to actually work with these guys. So some of them can honestly just slip through the cracks. But you see the more extreme situations like like a Marvin Bagley to Sacramento, for example, they just didn't have a plan for, they just didn't have a concrete, this is who he's going to be, this is what's best for him plan and they thought that he could do all these different things, which is great I am at. During that, trap actually called them like the NBA's version of silly putting right, like he had so many different Directions where his game could go but you had to choose one specific, specific direction for it. They didn't do that. He didn't really get to develop a lot of his other skills a because of how often he was injured, but B because they didn't have that plan in place and you see him move on to another team. We see those situations happen all the time.
Speaker 3:So fit is everything with these prospects? It truly is so. With a team like Utah, at least right now in that backcourt, i wouldn't say they have a lot of projects So they might have the right resources to be able to throw a jail in hood your feet on, be like, yeah, we're gonna bring this guy up and in a B and C area and generally Utah's been one of those organizations I know is how to draft talent, develop it and win with it. And now you have you have Danny age there, the freaking master of everything over there And it's running operations and you have a really good young head coach who seems to know what he's doing, not just from a scheme standpoint Or from a developmental standpoint, right, walker Kessler, fourth in the league and blocks last year, who saw that coming. So that that's why I think that that type of organization for someone like JHS Would be better than like an Orlando, for example and in this particular instance I would wouldn't black sheep Orlando by any stretch Like just for him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i'll have a good alright last year He was pretty good.
Speaker 1:You know, you know scoot going number one from what I heard for your last podcast.
Speaker 3:I know I've been talking up scoot. I don't understand why his number two ranking is really coming to this much of question. Like I, i think in some respects There's some people who are trying to be a little too cute with. We're gonna look for the the best wing available. We're gonna put that player automatically ahead of some of the other prospects on a potential big board. We have scoot Henderson, who's played in the G League for two years, has done nothing but produce In that league.
Speaker 3:Regardless of some of the games that you might have said he didn't have all of his energy, or he took some plays off, or he was bored, or you even you even had poo Jenner And and coach heart say that on my podcast that I did like he he'd. Sometimes guys who are that thing, who are that talented They're, they're looking ahead towards what next and and whether that's right or wrong, it's just something that happens. But when, when scoot Henderson's locked in, who else is a better prospect than him in this draft class, honestly, other than victor won midyama? so, not to mention throwing all the all the character things with him out, he is nothing but An awesome human being. Every single person you talk to is actually spent time with him, help develop him, help coach him, be around them. No, everyone has nothing but nice things to say about the guy. So I believe, between all of those aspects and him personally, he's just going to end up being the best version of himself He can be. That's the type of leader and person I want in my locker room. If I'm drafting number two overall, not saying that brandy miller can't be that guy, i just know that's what I'm getting with scoot Henderson And that's why I would take a number two on the on top of. You know, obviously, all the things we can talk about in terms of What he does in the court. I do have brandy miller at number three. I think it's an easy pick to make at number three.
Speaker 3:At that point He produced far better than I would have anticipated in a rookie year. I know quarry tall above or no silence He. He was in on brandy miller from the start. He had him as a top five prospect preseason. That worked out pretty well for court. So certainly hats off to him and his preseason evaluations. But you know, almost 20 points per game on the wing, shooting close to 40 percent from three on really high volume From that range and there are some concerns about his game in terms of the mid-range scoring. He was actually a better two-point mid-range score than he was three-point shooter in high school. So I think some of that will end up working back towards that end of the pendulum in his favor, the.
Speaker 3:I think the defense is real. I I wouldn't call him a stopper on the perimeter, but I think he is a really good help guy. He can be a solid team defender, help protect the the rim from the weak side, help rotate over contest shots, and then you get a lot of his. His secondary playmaking ability. He improved as a passer, as a guy bringing the ball at the floor, making the sit-ins for others. So there's a lot to like about his game. I'm just not sold on him being this, this number one shining star In in this draft class, because, like the, the argument I come back to is if you're willing to take brandy miller number two In this draft, that means if victor wasn't in this draft, you'd be willing to take brandy miller number one overall, and I'm I'm just not there. I can't get there. So he's number three, then I can't win more number four, like I mentioned earlier, and then I have jarris walker at number five. That's how my top five is shaking out right now Nice.
Speaker 2:No twins, huh Yeah.
Speaker 3:Well I I got the twins at six and seven, reluctantly.
Speaker 2:So I'm not as sold on their game.
Speaker 3:Really, to be honest with you Yeah, i'm They could end up being absolutely fantastic by, by all accounts, again, really great intel. Everyone he talked to has been around them. They're they're great kids. They're humble, they're very polite, they're hardworking, they're always in the gym, so Is their chance of ending up them being the best versions of themselves higher than than some other players could be in this draft? Absolutely. That's just based on the intel that I have.
Speaker 3:But there's a lot of question marks in terms of how their production ultimately translates up to the NBA and even within the overtime elite program.
Speaker 3:I'm not one who's knocking them because the league that they played in, but I do think, given the expectations surrounding them and then possibly being top five picks, i do think they could have played Much better in that league than they did.
Speaker 3:There's a lot of different factors that can go into that, but I think overall I was a little disappointed watching some of their games back, but when you just put the raw talent in front of you and you just look at, you know these guys six, seven, great length, their speed is tremendous and then could be one of the top X percentage athletes as soon as he walks into the NBA, the star is not that far behind them. You look at what they can be and you go these guys could be potential all-stars. But you also have to ask yourself What's the percentage chance of that actually happening, like that best possible outcome happening? I think it's a little slimmer than people would be care to admit, which is why I still have them inside my top 10, firmly inside my top 10. I just wouldn't feel comfortable taking them with the top five pick, even though I feel like Houston's probably going to go that direction, unless we just hear the James Harden smoke get out of control and then that's ultimately where he's going to go. What's?
Speaker 1:what's the differentiator, then, between them and and scoot, because the thing that I worry about This is like the season where everyone pokes holes in these guys because they're all incredible, and so now it's like you have to find the, the misgivings. But you know, i see him as there aren't a lot of six, two guys in the league who are, who dominate I mean, you're gonna name probably just a handful of guys, so so they've got a lot of the same attributes that he has elite athletes questionable jump, jump, shot, uh, but playmakers, by all means. High character both of them. So why not take the guy that's bigger, like what differentiates him, uh, from from them In your so?
Speaker 3:a. I have zero, zero concerns about the jump shot of the scoot. I think how the ball comes out of his hands I got zero concerns. I think more the more reps he gets the better. He was literally like a few three-point makes away from shooting over 34 on the year and in in the g league, right, not, not in a prep league, not in a shorter line From an mba line. So I'll take that first and foremost, and I love the may range game of scoot.
Speaker 3:The other big thing is Scoot knows how to change pace. Scoot knows how to manipulate defenses, get guys off balance. You know Accelerate but also decelerate at the right times and really make the most out of the space that he takes. It's not that someone like an a man or an a sora thompson can't do those things. We just don't really see it that often they play For the most part at one speed.
Speaker 3:Even all those crazy assists that you see a men make in the half court, they're, all you know, as fast as I can go downhill on a line drive, and then I'm trying to make everything happen From one speed, whether that's just finishing at the basket, whether that's the passing, what scoot does. Scoot is very deceptive, more deceptive than you would think and I've also seen his athleticism be knocked a little bit from some people on social media, which is really weird, because there's plenty of highlights I can find and show you, in which the way he explodes to the basket and takes off for a tomahawk dunk, it's like where did this come from? Like this. I didn't expect this to happen. So I think he's a better athlete than he gets credit for. And then just his understanding of how to play with Pace, how to the celebrate, take advantage of what the defense gives him in the space that he takes, i think Scoot's way more advanced in those areas than either of the Thompson twins.
Speaker 2:So would you say that in that aspect is he like a Westbrook as far not shooting, but like as far as, like his athletic and dunking ability and like in the fast break part. Would you compare him to Westbrook then?
Speaker 3:Just off of those aspects alone, sure you can make a comparison. I actually think how polished his game is at his age. It's kind of like Chris Paul 2.0, which is like crazy to say, and I don't. I don't usually throw the big names.
Speaker 3:There are a lot of comparisons because that's yeah, because exactly you're setting a really high bar when you even throw a name like that around. But just seeing what I've seen Scoot do in games and the flashes as well as you know, adding all those flashes up to legitimate production, which he's done in two years in the G league I mean, he was, he was 17, going on 18 last year in the G league for crying out loud You had everybody going. Who the heck is? Scoot Henderson, like we're, we're trying to watch for, for Jane Hardy and Marjan Boshamp and Dysa Daniels, and yet everyone's just talking about Scoot because he's out there dropping like 29 points and eight assists or tennis or whatever in a G league game at like 17, 18 years old, like dude. That that is. That is special Right.
Speaker 3:And the Thompson twins for for all that, we can talk about them and praise their efforts. They did not have games like that in overtime. They had bad moments for sure. They have plenty of highlights. You can easily fill up a 10 minute highlight tape with stuff that they've done over the last few years at overtime. But they don't have, in my opinion, the body of work that that Scoot Henderson does coming in at this stage and I'm just, i'm buying in the Scoot.
Speaker 1:I guess. I guess that means that that makes Brandon Miller Marvin Williams. Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 3:I, I think, I think Brandon Miller has decent upside of his own. I'm also just not sold to like Paul George is the right name to use for him. That that's been a very popular comparison.
Speaker 3:For sure, the way that Paul George moves on the court, brandon Miller does not move like him on the court. Brandon Miller does not handle the ball like he does on the court. Can he get better at those things? Sure, but when I watch Brandon Miller, he doesn't move or operate in the half court the way that I would expect the star to. He doesn't easily get to the same spots on the floor that we would call star spots in the playoffs, where these guys are consistently making these big time shots from the elevator teams over someone else.
Speaker 3:Brandon Miller isn't making those types of shots. It's very much so. He's going to catch the ball. He's going to get it off as quickly as he can from three point range If he has even an inch of space, because when he tries to take someone off the bounce, especially in the half court, it did not go so well for him at all at Alabama.
Speaker 3:So he really needs to tighten up some aspects of his game and prove that I can shake somebody off the bounce, i can get to these spots in the mid range and I can operate the same way like I did against high school competition. I need to prove that I can get all the way to the basket and finish at a high level, like some of the best star wing scores in the NBA. Can I need to make sure I can get to the free throw line? I need to get to my free throw attempts to properly add to my points per game average, like some of these stars. Can I need to prove all of these things before I'm throwing around a name like a Paul George, for example?
Speaker 1:That's a pretty high praise to you. I thought more like Keegan Murray, for someone just from last year, or even Harrison Barnes, like when I'm watching him.
Speaker 3:Those aren't terrible comps. Those, honestly, are not terrible comps. I think that's more so. And again, these are great players. like I had Keegan fifth on my board last year, so like that's not knocking him at all. I think when we start to use names like like a Paul George, that gets a little too high for me is like can you use the Mikhail Bridges?
Speaker 3:Like sure sure, mikhail Bridges can absolutely be a ceiling for him. But again, are you winning a championship with Mikhail Bridges as the best player on your team? Second best, maybe, so he looks good, possibly second best.
Speaker 2:Where would you have took him last year in the draft That's.
Speaker 3:I was curious Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like, Is he in the top three Oh?
Speaker 3:man, that's a fascinating question. He's probably no.
Speaker 2:He's a big guy and they were all big last year, so, like you, take him over Murray and Murray.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 3:So I had I had IV fourth on my board, i would still. I would still take him over Ivy. I think the Murray versus Brandon Miller conversation is debate. That's absolutely a debate. This is tough.
Speaker 2:Sorry, i didn't want to tell you.
Speaker 3:I'm still a big Keegan Murray guy because I just believe in his approach and how he sees the game on both sides.
Speaker 2:Oh no, I just trust that Yeah. Oh, that's what I wanted, awesome, i know. I was like come on, come on. They took him. I was like oh my God. And then I was like well, i get Ivy. And I was like no, no, no, no, i mean, but I was, but I was I was in Orlando.
Speaker 3:I still think chat was my number one player. I still think chat's going to be freaking awesome. I'm not out on Chabari. I think that that rookie season was just growing pains him as a rookie coming in. He's got to make some adjustments, not out on him, and yeah, i would The growth that Ivy showed from the beginning to the end of the year. I'm not taking him over Ivy either, so the highest I could see him on my board last year would have been five Absolute highest.
Speaker 2:So you would say that the top of the draft, obviously the ceiling's higher, the first two picks, and then after that it drops down to quite a bit And then, like after Miller, do you think it drops again Or do you think like that range, how big is that range, you know?
Speaker 3:like maybe there's a slight gap between Miller and like those other names you're showing out like the four through nine, four to 10. But when you talk about drop off between the top two and then the rest of the field, that absolutely So I would have. Every year I try and rank prospects based on my own tier system, which would be tier one I would have as like an MVP caliber player. That's the type of player you're envisioning to lead a franchise. Victor, women, yama's in that tier for me. Then tier two, i would have perennial all-star type player. He can, he can have, he can have the ceiling of making an all NBA team at some point. Maybe he does end up becoming a perennial NBA guy and I got to reevaluate the tier, but that's the tier I would have scoot Henderson And I do think he's a multi-time all-star caliber player, someone who's likely the second or third best player on a really good team, but at times, like a Chris Paul for example, chris Paul is not carrying you to a championship And can he be the best player on the floor in high level playoff games?
Speaker 3:He absolutely can be, and that's what I see for scoot Henderson. And then you have my tier three would be. I see you as a starter, longterm at least. At some point in your career in the NBA you're going to make it to that starter level. I would have, you know Brandon Miller, cam Whitmore, jeris Walker in that tier, and then the list goes on for a little while after that And then it breaks off into you know sixth men, specialist, again the bench guys. So so that that tier three for me I wouldn't say it's as deep as I'd like it to be this year in comparison to some prior years, but there are some really good names in this draft, especially when you get to like that nine to 16.
Speaker 1:Speaking of that, we got to get you on the record Who is someone that is a dark horse for, like second best player in the draft. I mean I think the consensus is like you said when Benyama, but there's always someone in these drafts that pops off. I mean you look at the NBA finals right now that these are not number one picks. Jimmy Butler is 30. You got Yokech is, you know, way, way down there. You know there's a couple of lottery.
Speaker 2:Murray wasn't even high, was he?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, because he was injured Yeah.
Speaker 2:So you put him on spot, i know, No, i was prepared to answer this question.
Speaker 3:I'm just I'm trying to answer it appropriately. I don't want to, i don't want to sound too outlandish when I say it, but I was.
Speaker 2:I was okay.
Speaker 3:I was banging the Balau Koola Valley drum before almost anyone else in the public sphere in terms of he needs to be in the lottery Right. There were some guys, especially some guys in our staff like Corey and Maxwell, who were like, yeah, i think this guy could be a top 20 pick, like before I had him there And then, because they got me looking at his film even more, i'm watching back and I'm looking at all these things on the film and I'm going, no, he should be in the lottery, like, like when we actually put together the strengths that he brings to the table. This is the type of wing that everyone wants to take a swing on in the draft And it's. It's funny. I'm actually going to be publishing a piece on Koola Valley for for no ceiling, specifically a solo piece, and I'm I'm going back right now and I'm looking at who he was even last year in Esquire Right, not even just earlier this year, but who was he last year, at least defensively. I'm still digging through some more of the offensive stuff, but at least defensively, i've never seen a player take a more drastic leap on one side of the ball in one year's time than I have Koola Valley, like when you watch him last year in Esquire.
Speaker 3:His defense was horrendous at times. He was not the same discipline player. He wasn't recognizing the same schemes and coverages. His closeouts were were put together very poorly. He wasn't rotating properly, he wasn't the same type of playmaker on the ball And you see him do a complete 180 this year for not just a swab, but now what he's doing for met 92 in the playoffs, the.
Speaker 3:The turnaround's been absolutely phenomenal And I think I think a lot of the offensive stuff in terms of the transition game, some of the the cutting the line drive ability, some of the secondary ball handling I think that stuff has been there even going back to last year in his game, as well as some of the deficiencies that you can talk about offensively, things that he does need to improve and if he's going to reach such a lofty ceiling, like he could possibly have but just improvements that he's made from one year to the next have been incredible. And if this is what he can do in one year and he's still 18 years old, what the heck can he be in like three years from now? And I think that upside is what teams are selling them on And my, my comp for him. This is. This is going to sound really weird.
Speaker 3:We're going to like it, though, because you guys are Indiana guys. So, offensively at his best he he gives me a lot of Victor Ola depot vibes as like this, this shifty combo guard getting much better, operating out of pick and roll.
Speaker 3:He is an absolute blur when he gets going off that screen, getting downhill, and then defensively he's kind of like a wingier version of like a chairby grant which is like really weird to say, but the type of playmaker he's become, the type of energy that he has, the amount of coverages he can defend in the amount of positions he can guard. So I'm looking at that sort of hybrid of a player and it's like all the depot, all the depot, at one point was on an all star trajectory.
Speaker 1:Like let's, I don't want to like.
Speaker 3:I don't want to sell him short because of some things that happened in his career, but I wouldn't say that either one of those players are, like you know, top three players on on a championship team at least not like right now And then maybe all the depot could have been, but regardless, that's not who he is right now. So when I use those two names it's like I'm painting the picture of a good player. I don't think I'm going too far out in terms of man. I'm giving this guy such a lofty projection that he can't live up to. But if those are some of the names I'm bringing into the conversation, he has that type of floor, that that is the type of impact player he can be. You know, three, four years from now in the NBA, why aren't you looking to draft that guy?
Speaker 1:You know, especially if you, if you're one of these teams with like a million first round picks, or picks in general, man I'd be those are the type of guys I'd be taking swings at.
Speaker 3:So Corey Corey said it on on Nick's fan TV yesterday, and I think I had a conversation with Max Will as well, like, i think Orlando at six is is when you got to start putting that guy in play, which is that no one was saying that like a month, a month prior. but that's just where he's ended up now. Take a swing at it, right, absolutely that's what you have. That's what you have to do. You have to be star hunting for as long as you can in the lottery And I just I look at some of these other names. You know you can compare them to the Thompson twins, you can compare them to Taylor Hendrix and Anthony Black like. But you know you get to a certain point where it's like man, even those guys they aren't the same positional archetype that is dominating the NBA that everybody's looking for. So when do you take a swing on?
Speaker 2:So let's go the opposite way and say who's supposed to go higher, that you feel like it's going to drop down.
Speaker 3:So the popular faller, in terms of where he was at preseason versus now, is his Gigi Jackson and Gigi Jackson at one point was like a preseason top 10 guy.
Speaker 3:Now everyone who who does mock drafts with legitimate Intel has him outside the first round and that that doesn't surprise me one bit. I have a back end of the first round, green autumn I have him at 29 on my board. But the thing with Gigi Jackson it's really fun to compare him to a player like Leonard Miller. Who Leonard Miller? I did not have any expectations for him last year When he came up as a guy we had to evaluate in last draft. I didn't even want to put a top 45 grade on him Like I was just out, like don't, do not come in this draft, go somewhere, be in a college, go the G League route. Go down a path in which you're going to Prioritize just getting better as a player and finding a certain area in which you can fit in to MBA level basketball. Went the G League night route.
Speaker 3:He was not the same player that we saw on some of that that Ontario tape in his high school days Was not always handling the basketball, was not always doing something with it or making all these decisions. He was a glue guy for ignite a lot of the time that he got opportunities to show a little bit more of what he could do, but for the most part he was a glue guy. He defended multiple positions, he rebounded the heck out of the ball. He was making plays on the ball, he was a transition guy, he was a half-core finisher. That's what he prided himself in and he found a way in which he can stick in the MBA And can come into be an impact player, regardless of where he gets drafted. I have him as a lottery grade on my board at this point. I think he's probably like a top 20, top 25 guy, but he's someone who actually found success, you know, minimalizing his game a little bit, finding areas that that he can sort of showcase. Hey, i, I may not be able to do these things yet, but I can do these things, you know. By the way, those intriguing parts of my game are still there. This is what I can possibly become three, four or five years from now if you throw the right development or resources at me.
Speaker 3:Gigi Jackson's the opposite. Gigi Jackson showed a lot of South Carolina to where I'm going to be this ball dominant. You know, shoot first big wing, who. My game doesn't really have layers past that, like I'm not playing like a traditional forward. I'm not, you know, hard rolling to the basket. I'm not setting hard screens. I'm not as active and engaged on the boards or as a defender As I probably should be. I have a negative assist to turnover ratio. You know, i'm not finding these other little ways to impact the game. This is kind of just who I am. I'm on the court, i'm here to take shots. This is who I'm supposed to be high volume, low efficiency guy.
Speaker 3:And he he didn't show other ways where he can stand out and make more of an impact. And when you look at that type of player who is Ridiculously talented like I'm not knocking him for doing those things, he was a preseason top 10 talent. If you have him in next year's draft he could go top five like it's not a talent question, it's more so. You have to find a way to fit in and if you can't do these things now at a high level, find something else. Find another way to impact the game to make sure that you're not just giving away possessions And having the other team go back and and your team's kind of just left on one end, you know, not really capitalizing on any any one thing in particular, and so He sort of has to I wouldn't say completely remodel his game, but he has to find ways in which he can differentiate himself. Good luck telling that to someone who is as talented as Gigi Jackson.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it sounds like you're describing a Monty Bates right now.
Speaker 2:But I could, could it come back?
Speaker 3:It's it's, it's.
Speaker 3:I don't have those types of character concerns about Gigi, by the way, but it's like it.
Speaker 3:If you're really good at your job, right, and you think you can do x, y and z, but you're not necessarily proving that you can do x, y and z, how easy is it for someone to come over and tell you to be like, hey, man, like you, you actually got to come over here, you got to do this other thing that can help us. It's like, how do you respond to that when you are as talented as someone like Gigi is? and like I don't know Gigi, i haven't talked to him, i don't know the answer and how he would respond to that question. So without that type of intel, i can't firmly say that, yeah, he's going to come in, exactly how he is, into the NBA next year And this is going to work out in his favor. He's going to make a team look really smart if they take him in the ladder like I. I can't say that and And apparently by the intel, a lot of other teams may not have that same impression Either, because of where he's being, where he's being mocked right now.
Speaker 2:So that's, that's a guy who's taken a tumble and and I could have seen it coming If he's there for the pacer, second round draft picks, that that's a good gamble, sure, absolutely and maybe that they're good.
Speaker 3:There does get to a point with some of these guys where you just you take the swing on.
Speaker 2:Well, I would think that maybe that guy could be humbled by getting in the second round to be pissed off and be willing to prove everybody wrong. Absolutely, you know I think maybe not, but like you know, second round, he's like okay, really yeah, On your g-league team maybe yeah, they take a couple years Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think I think gg can be that guy. Like right, rafio barlow has done good content with gg. He got to film a workout session interview behind the scenes and, by all accounts, like rafio was saying like he's a great kid, like I don't even, he was saying like I don't understand why, why he's falling, necessarily. So I I think he's a good guy who's going to come in and put in the work. It's just You got to prove to me that you are actually going to do these things. It's it's one thing to say that you can do them, it's another thing to actually do them. He has to prove that to somebody and if he doesn't during this pre-draft process, he is going to follow the second round.
Speaker 1:Well, it's not a lot of teams that want a guy that's two years away from being two years away too.
Speaker 3:That's, that's, that's true development is again. What did we just talk about at the top of the podcast?
Speaker 2:exactly you want, we want to get, we want to go like, but then they're already giving up because the second contract's coming up and they're deciding that they want to keep them or not, and if they haven't done anything, it's really hard to To do that, yep.
Speaker 3:For sure, absolutely So it puts you. it puts you in a bind and if you're if gg jackson's gonna be one of those guys who He's on a second contract for another team, not the team that drafts them. Why would you invest such high draft capital on somebody who may not be on your team in the next two to three years?
Speaker 1:That segues perfectly into uh trade season. I feel like there are not a lot of There. Usually there's not a lot of trades in the draft, but I've heard more chatter About trades in this draft than I feel like I have in a few years. So I'm curious if you've got a favorite That you've seen out there or that that you've uh got in the the trade machine and and cooked up What, uh, what do you think on on the trades draft night?
Speaker 3:Uh, i tried, I, i legitimately tried, guys. I I wrote a column for no ceilings where I tackled some of the top lottery questions and scenarios for these teams Picking in the top four and we know portlands in this conversation because of what do they do with damon lode? Do they train the number three pick? What type of player can they get back for them? And I wrote out a bunch of trades in my column with teams like boston for jaylen brown, with toronto for og anon obi, with chicago for demar de rosin, with the clippers for paul george It's. You look at the framework of what these trades have to be because of the money, because of you know What just has to be in there to bring back value for like a star caliber weighing. The trades just don't make sense on either side in my opinion, like they really don't. So I I don't see the number three pick being moved on draft night.
Speaker 1:But What about the flip side? What about moving dame then?
Speaker 3:I mean, we, we know the answer, we, we all know what, what that answer should be. Um it's it's unfortunately it's.
Speaker 3:It's not going to happen and honestly I don't blame portland for for not moving him, because Damond the little nerd shout out to like bread. I'll show one of my guys on on mba twitter at the from the overstate mba group. I've been doing content with him for forever but he made a statistical case. One day They're like dame could have a statistical case as a top 10 point guard of all time. Wow, like not saying that he is, but like just like buy the numbers and what he's done.
Speaker 3:So you're going to move off that player who Is a major draw for you as a franchise, who gets you on any national tv games to begin with, who fills seats in your arena for you, sells, merchandise the whole nine. You're going to get rid of that player Because you feel like ultimately, if you blow it up, you're essentially hoping to walk into another damean load at some point, like that's what the hope is, but you also don't know that that's going to happen. So it's like it gets very complicated when you actually dissect you know Pass, what, what, the what the talking heads say on the talk shows every single day. It gets really tricky when you try to dissect the why behind, why he isn't moving. Would you do it?
Speaker 1:for if you're bossing if scoot, if scoot falls, what you love, you love scoot.
Speaker 3:So here's, here's the what let's really tell you guys. Let's test your scoot love. You? oh no, you can test me, but I'll test you guys. I'll give you the trade. So So the Portland trailblazers in this exercise, they would get jail and brown, because that's who Portland would want to pair with, dame the boss, and selvix would get amphrey simons, the seer little, the third pick and 2029 future, first unprotected For jail and brown. So you're telling me would you do that trade?
Speaker 2:You know it's funny is that I think me and Aaron had had this conversation and It's just, it's tough because jaylen brown so young, but Do you think about how much money he's gonna make And how much money tatum is gonna make? I just don't know If they can put enough around them. Like I heard a good thing the other day. They were talking about boston's team and what the point guard rated like Smart was like 29 out of 30 in the league or something. White was actually 27th out of 30. Like they're like you can only put so many pieces that, like horror was like The last one at his position. Like like you can only put so many people around him. So if you're boston, i mean you are getting the young guy, but you're also getting You're getting dame. Which how many more years can he be dame?
Speaker 1:No, not dame this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they're getting scoot like scooting.
Speaker 3:So boston would get They get, so boston would get scoot anthony simons this year, little on a future first for jaylen brown. So here's boston's. We had to move smart.
Speaker 2:They had to move smart.
Speaker 3:So so if you're boston, good luck walking into the room and telling jayson's we're gonna we're gonna take two steps back To potentially take a giant leap forward. Yeah, like.
Speaker 1:I just can't do it You can make that trade.
Speaker 3:You bring in the second star alongside dame Do you get there How?
Speaker 3:how far are you getting with with dame Jaylen brown, nurkitch and then whatever else they can try to piece together around them, like you're hoping? you're hoping you're bringing back jeremy grand, at which case, if you are, you're gonna be you're gonna be over the tax, you're gonna be paying a, a high bill, regardless of what that roster ends up shaking out. As you're hoping, shane sharp takes another leap And you don't really have a lot of veteran pieces on the bench. You got to hope that. You know dame jaylen brown and nurkitch That's enough to get some. You know some low level, low level contract wise, like veteran free agents come in. Or like you're gonna be looking like buy out guys in the trade. They're like you're. You're hoping that that core is enough to bring the right cheap pieces together to help you win a championship. But like I, i don't have faith that that's gonna happen either. So it's like it to me that that trade doesn't make sense on on either side. Just for my opinion.
Speaker 1:Can't do it. You can't do it like you just can't. You can't break up teams that go as a as a bull, as a bulls fan who experienced the last dance and broke up the, the greatest bulls team of all time, for no particular reason other than You just can't.
Speaker 2:Why isn't that about ready to happen with the Warriors?
Speaker 1:I don't think so. I don't think that executive step down for a reason.
Speaker 2:Like he doesn't want to be the one that tails. Then they're gonna trade green and then not bringing Thompson back. I think he's just tired, i don't know. He doesn't want to be the hated like right now. Everybody loves him. He gets rid of those guys. He becomes the Chicago executive. It's not happening man. I don't know. I'm gonna put you on the spot there. What do you think is gonna happen with the Warriors? Do you think they're gonna break that team up? I know it's a, it's a. It's a hard question.
Speaker 3:I I think it's gonna be business as usual. I really do. I think, I think hers gonna stick around. I think they're gonna get they're gonna get somebody to fill that position from within, right, so it's gonna be similar culture that's still there, with the correct leadership in place, because you keep her. Her, i think, is gonna stay in this instance. You still have Steph Curry. You're gonna bring back Trayman, you're gonna find a way to make it work with clay and yours. It's gonna be good, good times to roll.
Speaker 1:You roll it back man.
Speaker 3:There's no reason.
Speaker 1:There's no reason not to. I think the chips just fell weird for them this year. There's no, there's no, there's no saying that they that because they ran into Anthony Davis and LeBron and it didn't work for them. If it had, you know, cut a different way, that they might not have. I mean, they might have been alright in some of the other series. I don't know, but I'm not.
Speaker 2:I'm not saying they're more. I think they need to get rid of pool and Package in Caminga and try to upgrade center. They should have traded for miles. Turner is what they should have done. They had miles turn on that team. I don't think they lose the leggers.
Speaker 3:So, no, no offense to Golden State, but they haven't exactly proven that they are the, the masters of developing talent.
Speaker 3:That's what I mean, either, necessarily so, like John and the coming is another one of these guys I, when he was in that draft, i I saw the talent. I saw the raw natural talent, but there also wasn't one bankable skill that I could point to and say, yep, you're gonna do this in the NBA and it's kind of worked out that way, right? So if you didn't have the best plan in place to develop them because you're trying to get him to do everything that this team that Can go win a championship is doing, that's not working out. You already moved off Wiseman, so you have.
Speaker 3:I think moody's gonna be just fine. I think Pat Baldwin could be someone who they look at next year. I also like Ryan Rollins as a guy they were able to bring in out of the second round. Like they have some young pieces. But you do need a lot to come out of those guys. Or else you got to figure out another direction to go like To this point, like you got to figure out a way to maybe package some of these guys together and and make a move. I do think they're gonna have some shake-ups, like that roster will not be the exact same going into next year. I just I don't think it's gonna be dream on yeah.
Speaker 2:So you think they have to pick between keeping dream on and keeping Wiggins or Me?
Speaker 1:Wiggins, this point is better player right next year. You just roll it back and then then you pick after that a lot of luxury.
Speaker 2:Yeah well, the luxury tax.
Speaker 1:Well, they got, but they've got the one year. So this is the weird thing They've got the one-year kind of grace period, with the the more more restrictive, like Apron stuff. So I think after this year then they probably will be four. You know, their hand will be forced because then they won't be able to say mid-level guys, no, really be, they'll really be in it.
Speaker 3:Don't be hamstrung Yep.
Speaker 1:So they got basically one more year to roll it back, see what they can do, sign a mid-level you know Mid-level guy and then hope for it figured out.
Speaker 3:Do I get to take Ronnie number one in the?
Speaker 2:He's already number one now, like he's made so much money already and he even Played a day of Colin, obviously.
Speaker 3:Victor.
Speaker 1:He's a Nike guy or he's been wearing Nike somebody has to give him a fortune.
Speaker 3:I mean he will. He will, regardless of who it is he, he will have his own big guys, don't, big guys, don't.
Speaker 1:What was the last big guy that sold a shoe? I Know, right, exactly.
Speaker 3:I mean the two that come, but then they don't?
Speaker 1:he's still wearing his MB ones. There's never been an MB to Yeah, didn't?
Speaker 3:the two most marketable big men, or the big men who we thought would be the most marketable? Obviously Shaq. Yeah. Then you got to go back to like when Pat Ewing was number one overall and it's like that's a long Were you born? then I was not born exactly, so I'm not sure.
Speaker 1:I don't sure if I take when, but yeah, but this is different nobody's ever missed their own shot from three and dunked it.
Speaker 2:So it's a different, it's a different kind. and the the hype I mean all right, like, do you think at this point The Zion deserved his own shoe?
Speaker 1:Well, no, okay, but he has his own shoe in itself. Wow, he's not a big guy.
Speaker 2:I mean he's not, let's he play power forward.
Speaker 1:I'd say he's, i'd say he plays a kind of a hybrid Like power forward if you're rolling it back You're.
Speaker 3:You're choosing Zion number one ten times out of ten. Yeah actually, and you go back and give him the shoe deal.
Speaker 2:Original podcast before not with you, but with Aaron I said I'd trade that pick and I get as much as possible as I get out of it. I said it from the very beginning. I just did not see him holding up in the NBA. I just didn't. I didn't. I was like you're gonna get way too much. Because it was so much hype, i was like I don't see it.
Speaker 3:But yeah, but when he's been on the floor, he's been when, when.
Speaker 1:Understand how good was old, is he? He's what 22?
Speaker 3:20 20, 22, 23.
Speaker 1:I mean I body isn't gonna get healthier. That's not true. I mean, you viewed it. Said the same thing about and bead. He was 23 before he started playing. Like he sat out. What two and a half years to start his career? So it's not, it's not for sure. I understand your trepidations, but I feel like riding him off right now is dangerous too. You could, we could be sitting here in five years, hopefully, and and talking about you know- how is it gonna get that jump shot?
Speaker 2:you promise? No, he's not Ben Simmons coming, You were like hey, this is the same thing. I was like I don't want him, and you're like, oh he's. I'm telling you He's gonna be. And then what happened?
Speaker 1:I'm wrong a lot, though That's, that's those two. I mean that's not fair because That's a mental thing, so I don't know. but anyway, yeah, and I L and I L draft is what you asked about who you taking.
Speaker 3:Yeah, i mean we talked about the top two guys, the Thompson twins, they they already have. You know, everybody handed them everything under the Sun. So, like they're, they're gonna walk away with some some cool endorsement deals. I'd say Anthony black is another guy. I just think he has that, that great personality that's gonna be able to you're gonna be able to market him, i like, as a winner, as a team guy. So Find the, give you another name. It's tough, it's really tough. I've.
Speaker 1:Thompson twins in the dunk contest to. I'd like to see them go go against each other. I would love to see them Right.
Speaker 3:I would. I would love to see them in the dunk contest. I would go as a last one. I'll go Derek lively I think lively will have a good personality ever. Every interview I've seen lively in he's actually handling himself really well interesting, he's a big riser too right, he is, he's.
Speaker 3:So he was like preseason top five, top six because of where he ranked in high school. Then he fell off a little bit because he wasn't producing a Duke in second half of the year. As soon as that North Carolina game in early February and then onward He really turned it up in gear and now he's had tremendous pro day workouts, tremendous Pride in person workouts with teams. So yeah, he's, he's a big riser back up boards. I haven't been in the lottery.
Speaker 1:We appreciate it. Give us, give us again a plug for all the stuff you guys got going on at no ceilings. The website is amazing Podcast, youtube. You guys are all over the place now.
Speaker 3:So you can follow me on Twitter personally at draft. Deeper, you can find the no ceilings collective on Twitter at no ceilings NBA. If you follow us there You will see anything and everything we're doing Substack, no ceilings NBA, calm, written content about the draft Monday through Friday, even some Sundays. Podcast feed no ceilings NBA. Wherever you get your podcast again, monday through Friday, podcast episodes pumping out, and then YouTube channel No ceilings NBA. Go find us there. We've got not just our podcast and video form but we've got some fun film sessions We've been doing with prospects. We've got prospect interviews. That we've done. I've done some some coach interviews. I'll have another fun interview coming up with Damian Wolkins of overtime elite gonna be interviewing him this week. So make sure you're locked into everywhere You can possibly find content for the draft. They're promised no ceilings NBA's. They're doing something.
Speaker 1:Love it, man, i love, i appreciate your hustle, appreciate you coming on again and we'll I'm sure we'll do it again. Absolutely. Thanks for having me on, as always, that was awesome. Thank you for listening to the 19 nine podcast. If you haven't already subscribed to the podcast, make sure you do. And, while you're at it, leave us a rating or review. Five stars only, like the basketball camp. We also have links to all of 19 nine social media, so you never miss a release until next time.
Speaker 3:He will because that season is gonna be the LeBron James retirement Retirement by the next year.
Speaker 2:Right now he's the draft next year right getting in the draft next year.
Speaker 1:Oh, i'd say, is Not a, not a chance, not if he wants to go in the first round. Is he gonna? is he gonna start for USC is a better question. I.
Speaker 2:Don't know, is he gonna start Oh?
Speaker 3:I would, i would serve, think I would sure think so, and I would sure think he's gonna be in the in the 2024.
Speaker 1:I'm not as impressed by him.
Speaker 3:It's. It's not a hot take. John Jonathan Gavoni already be me to the punch, like six months ago Say who's gonna be a top ten pick. It ain't a hot take, but it's it. It's the truth. I think if you, if you're still out on brahney and you know you don't see him as like a top 25 pick in the next draft, just go back and watch some of the senior year tape.
Speaker 2:I mean.
Speaker 1:Watch the updated tape.
Speaker 3:It's good tape.
Speaker 1:Yeah, i'll check it out. I mean he should be talking himself to be in the next jail In Brunson or Mike Connelly, cuz he's little hey, if he's Brunson, that's pretty good.
Speaker 2:It is like Brunson started a really good player talking himself up.
Speaker 1:Well, bron needs to start saying that to people, so it gets out in the ether.
Speaker 3:Oh, I think he will. I think he's gonna do a great job.
Speaker 2:Yeah oh, definitely. I mean I I know I don't know if I seen it, but did you guys put a pacer one out? yet We have not got that was searching for because that's coming, yeah, coming, coming.
Speaker 3:so this coming Monday, when we're recording this on Monday, june 12th, i believe for the audience there's a really tricky one, because I just don't know where they go with that.
Speaker 2:Because I'm a big Pacer fan so I'm like, well, do you, do you really want somebody young Are, do you like me? unless they draft up and get like Brandon Miller? But like, do they want him? I don't know, like I don't know where they go with that. Like, how many young people do you want to have your team For the playing time purpose? like? I've listened to your podcast you know like we were talking about like you get too many young guys. There's always so much playing time. Like obviously they got Halliburton and they got them heart, so they don't. You want a point guard, you know. And then, like they have buddy right now and they they have Madden. Like Madden's gonna want to start, like it's only a matter of time, you know. And then either they're small forward and they could possibly upgrade there. I mean Chris Deortate is is he actually gonna be a valuable option? or they're gonna trade him because Great first season. Last season he was hurt a lot, didn't really show much like so.
Speaker 1:What you're saying is what should the Pacers do with their pick? They got a little.
Speaker 2:I don't know, i don't. What do you think?
Speaker 3:I love coming on an Indiana podcast, that's right about the Pacers, the Hoosiers, beginning to all all that fun.
Speaker 2:So the Pacers are earned if I don't want to give away what you're gonna do, though Don't, don't. Don't give away your information a little bit. No, no, no.
Speaker 3:So we we already preview the Pacers on a draft deeper episode. Already, when we started our lottery team previews, we started with the Pacers and the jazz. Those were the first two teams with that so well. When we're talking about the Pacers, they're in an interesting position because of the style of basketball they play. It's very up and down, it's very connective. It's very similar to what the Oklahoma City Thunder have done out in the Western Conference.
Speaker 3:So when you build that type of system, you have the right pieces in place. It's not just the youth that you would take into account, necessarily, but it's it's the right type of player, right? so who's gonna keep the ball moving within the offense? Who's gonna play up to that transition style? and then who's gonna offer you the same type of support defensively? Who's gonna fit that identity of? we may not have a bunch of guys who you're throwing at somebody to stop them one-on-one on an Island, but we have so many players that recognize where they need to be and what they need to be doing within help, you know, help, rotations, all that stuff. So they're making a lot of plays in the ball, they're getting a lot of steals, are getting a lot of blocks. So who are the types of players that actually fit into those identities And to me it's it's Jarris Walker, it's Taylor Hendricks and that's that's the conversation, right?
Speaker 3:I? I adore Cam Whitmore. I have Cam Whitmore fourth on my board and we're gonna talk about like what my top five looks like. But he's not necessarily the best fit for the Pacers as much as I would want him to be, because he's not that connective tissue and offense. He's very much so a play finisher. So Jarris Walker absolutely has that connectivity about him. Right, he's an underrated passer. He hasn't, he doesn't didn't get to show a lot of the handle at Houston as much as he did at IMG. But you go back and watch the high school tape. He was doing a lot of stuff off the dribble. That makes him look like this power wing or this wingy version of like a fan Matta bio this small ball big, so that's that's.
Speaker 3:That's the type of player that I Certainly would want to be in the NBA and I think his ceiling could warrant that as long as he continues to focus on the right parts Of his game. And then Taylor Hendricks He's not a bad passer by any stretch of the imagine. I wouldn't call him a great one, but I think he's good enough for what you guys want to do. And then he's just another one of these guys who's gonna space the floor, keep everything space for guys like Tyrese Hallibur and Andrew Nemhar and Ben Mather, and cut to the basket. He's gonna keep all those windows open for you, while also being another one of these guys. You know Graded rotations, great at helping from the weak side. He can cover so much ground for even get from one side of the court to the other Much quicker thing that people anticipate.
Speaker 3:I got to see Taylor Hendricks up close and personal. That was with Cory. That was like one of the big things I said was how quickly he was getting from one side of the court to the other. So, like those two forwards, there's a reason why they're being talked about a lot in the draft, because they are that good and war in a top seven pick. That's who you want. If you can't get one of those guys, i could see maybe opening up some exploratory conversations about, you know, trading the pick or looking a different direction with it. But I do think one of those guys is going to be there for the pastes and number seven, which is why I would just keep fingers crossed, keep the faith. He's faith.
Speaker 2:Hi, you know you guys are probably bringing an impact player next year. See, oh impact right away You think both of them are.
Speaker 3:I think, i think both of them are impact players right away. I'm not, not not to, like you know, make their expectations.
Speaker 2:Or you think at the level that matter and had you think they'll make like all, like all rookie first or second team, yeah that's.
Speaker 2:I mean that's pretty good. I mean I'll take it. I'll take it for sure. I just didn't know what, what the path that the Pacers were gonna take. I didn't know if they would try to trade up and if they didn't trade up, if they would Try to take that pick and some better picks and maybe try to go get an og and a no be or something You know like, because they they're defensively they don't, they don't really have a really strong defensive player besides miles. So like I thought you put both of them together and that really, as he was on all defensive first team this year, og was, i'm pretty sure. So like that really increases the value of the Defense and he's a good shooter and it leaves floor spacing for Tyrese to do his thing. You know that's. That was the one thing and I mean obviously for my. You saw, i'm a Pacer fan, so obviously I'm an og fan.
Speaker 3:World's collide. No, i'd like, like, as I was talking about, you guys don't really have anybody on the perimeter who can stop somebody one on one. I mean, andrew Nemhardt was the guy who ended up guarding the other team player more often than not, and like So so that's actually credit to him.
Speaker 3:Like he can handle that type of responsibility Even as an older rookie coming in. That that's kudos to him and it's a big reason why I was very close to having him on my first Team all rookie. I ended with him actually one spot ahead of mathrin on my rookie rank my final one because I just thought he took more Lion's share of the responsibilities on more nights on both sides of the ball than mathrin. I really don't that. Mathrin's gonna be great. Math is gonna be freaking awesome. I don't really think he got better as the season went on, so I think that that more was a nod towards them. Hard and again. He's gonna be an awesome player as well. But years from now, when you guys are looking to compete for a top four seed in the Eastern Conference, i'm not sure you want Andrew Nemhardt being your best stopper on the perimeter, so you do need someone at that forward spot that can handle the size. Yeah, i totally agree.
Speaker 2:I agree with that. He. He probably did have a bigger impact than Mathern did just over. I think when you're when you're watching the games like listen.
Speaker 3:I get like the, the rookie ratings and and you know trying to vote on awards bouts I get a lot of it's determined by statistics right points per game, rebounds per game I get all that. But if you actually watch the games, like a lot of Pacers fans did You all are, i'm sure you love math or you think he's gonna be great. You love math or you think he's gonna be great, but just in this one season I think Nemhardt had a much bigger impact for for the team than than Mathern. Right now. That that will flip At some point, maybe even next season, but right away I think Nemhardt was a was a really big surprise.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and and Carlisle had more. You could tell he had more faith in him than Mather. You know he kept him in more, he played him more, and defense is probably a big key in that.
Speaker 1:That's a car? Oh, that's a car. I'll think, yeah, more than a night thing enough baser talk.
